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[wuischke]

Are you by chance US American?

Anyway: You are free to use wine and MorphXT and you are free to modify aMule according to your needs (as long as you follow the GPL).

But you have to grant the aMule developers the freedom of having a different point of view in this matter as well.

[francus]

I am Italian not American. I am a philosopher, not a programmer. I give the contribution am able to do.  That's all. If  it may be helpful for you, use it.  Otherwise I can only thank you for what you already have done. The way is long, may be someone else will get it.

Regarding Wine,  the morphXT was tested by the Italian maintainers, that are among the most active. But it is not working under Wine.

Regards

[francus]

I checked again and it seem that now the morphXT is partially working (slowly) under Wine/Ubuntu.  Well it is something! Thanks 

Regards

[Kry]

Kicking clients is bad

This is a philosophical item and want to give my contribution: this is about freedom. Is freedom bad?

Is it bad the freedom to choose what you want to upload, provided you are within the requested down/up ratio?

Is it bad to be able to stop uploading something you do not want to upload, provided you are in the ratio?

It is not bad it is healthy.  There are many reasons

First mainstream files are already super supported, you immeadiately begin downloading that, so there no reason to punish relaese files to support mainstream files. We already have television that bored us with mainstream content. There is no need to support mainstream content also on P2P networks.

Second we are free humans, free to choose our way and free to choose the contribution we want to give to this world, even in what we upload.

Third, you are personally responsible for what you upload. Until a file is downloaded, and until you have the time to look at it you do not know what it really is.  It may be a fake,  a porn child abuse or whatever. You do not know.  And you are legally responible for that. This is enough to stop many people using amule. Limiting your ability  to kick clients means limiting your ability to control what you upload.

Fourth amule is the only way to reach edonkey network under Linux. It is sad that if you want  freedom, you have to  say goodby to Linux (supposedly the world of freedom) and revert to the MorphXT of emule under windows.  That is what I sadly continue to do.

This is not a minor item. This is freedom. Freedom is not an empty word. It is something concrete. Something to care about. Something to nourish. Something to extend, protect and defend. Freedom is ourselves.

So take your courage, there is really nothing bad about kicking clients.  Rather aim at expanding freedoms for example also setting an upload priority hierarchy, as morphXT already does.

Blah blah blah demagogy. The point is, you want to do something that can be used to harm the network as a whole. Noone in the aMule comunity wants to harm the network. You have the freedom to do it, go ahead, but we're actually free to dislike it.

[francus]

Kicking clients is bad

This is a philosophical item and want to give my contribution: this is about freedom. Is freedom bad?

Is it bad the freedom to choose what you want to upload, provided you are within the requested down/up ratio?

Is it bad to be able to stop uploading something you do not want to upload, provided you are in the ratio?

It is not bad it is healthy.  There are many reasons

First mainstream files are already super supported, you immeadiately begin downloading that, so there no reason to punish relaese files to support mainstream files. We already have television that bored us with mainstream content. There is no need to support mainstream content also on P2P networks.

Second we are free humans, free to choose our way and free to choose the contribution we want to give to this world, even in what we upload.

Third, you are personally responsible for what you upload. Until a file is downloaded, and until you have the time to look at it you do not know what it really is.  It may be a fake,  a porn child abuse or whatever. You do not know.  And you are legally responible for that. This is enough to stop many people using amule. Limiting your ability  to kick clients means limiting your ability to control what you upload.

Fourth amule is the only way to reach edonkey network under Linux. It is sad that if you want  freedom, you have to  say goodby to Linux (supposedly the world of freedom) and revert to the MorphXT of emule under windows.  That is what I sadly continue to do.

This is not a minor item. This is freedom. Freedom is not an empty word. It is something concrete. Something to care about. Something to nourish. Something to extend, protect and defend. Freedom is ourselves.

So take your courage, there is really nothing bad about kicking clients.  Rather aim at expanding freedoms for example also setting an upload priority hierarchy, as morphXT already does.

Blah blah blah demagogy. The point is, you want to do something that can be used to harm the network as a whole. Noone in the aMule comunity wants to harm the network. You have the freedom to do it, go ahead, but we're actually free to dislike it.

Which possible harm are you thinking about?

[skolnick]

People could start banning clients randomly, for no apparent reason and bring chaos to the network. Great power brings great responsibility. This feature would be great power. Problem is, you cannot trust in people's responsibility.

Regards.

[francus]

People could start banning clients randomly, for no apparent reason and bring chaos to the network. Great power brings great responsibility. This feature would be great power. Problem is, you cannot trust in people's responsibility.

Regards.

Thanks for replying
I am not suggesting to give the power to ban clients randomly, in the morphxt you do not have this power. Clients are banned automatically by the software  only when it is necessary  to upload files with higher upload priority. So it is not a reponsibility of people, it is a responsibility of the software.
It doesn't bring chaos, but order, because files are not uploaded randomly, but according to a precise order, set by the hierarchy upload priority.
Upload priorities improve the availability of rare files. This is a fact. It is of course much more difficult to download a rare file than a mainstream file. The automatic banning of clients to support higher upload priority files just supports that.
And at the end you have anyway to respect the up/down ratio whatever you upload, so your responsibility for the network is fulfilled.
Using the morphxt i have seen that my upload band works always at the maximum, even when it switches from a file with lower upload priority to a file with higher upload priority. So the network works always smooth at full power
Do you feel I am missing something?

[Kry]

Yep, you're missing something.

Upload priorities improve the availability of rare files. This is a fact.

Nope. That's a fallacy. Upload priorities harm the availability of rare files. The reason for this is that people want to upload what other people want to earn credits. Thus, they upload the files that people want most, and guess what, those are not rare files, by definition. For every individual like you  who would love to do the "right thing", there're 100 other users wanting to leech from other people.

[francus]

Yep, you're missing something.

Upload priorities improve the availability of rare files. This is a fact.

Nope. That's a fallacy. Upload priorities harm the availability of rare files. The reason for this is that people want to upload what other people want to earn credits. Thus, they upload the files that people want most, and guess what, those are not rare files, by definition. For every individual like you  who would love to do the "right thing", there're 100 other users wanting to leech from other people.

Maybe that after using emule from the beginning yet do not get it. But what I get is that the only way to earn credits is your upload band. Larger the upload band->larger the credit. So everyone wants the upload band always at the full maximum possible speed. For me it is that simple.

But that is exactly what you get (by personal multiyear experience) with the morphxt, uploading rare files. Why? Because rare file with higher upload priority are only uploaded first and fast, and they fill as much upload band as possible. But the remaining upload band doesn't get lost, it is automatically used to upload standard (not rare) files. So the final result is that my upload band is always at full speed and i get always maximum credits, even doing the "right thing".  In other words there is no incentive in doing ther "right thing" or the "wrong thing"  the credits are just the same. 

[Kry]

No they aren't.

[wuischke]

It's not just about getting credits - it's about earning credits by the right person i.e. someone who has a file you are downloading.

You have no advantage of uploading a rare file, if the person you upload to offers nothing what you want. (I think credits are valid until 3 months after the last contact)

It might help a lot if you upload a lot of a rare file, though, but I think aMule's Release priority is sufficent for the job, it should not be necessary to kick other uploads.

[francus]

It's not just about getting credits - it's about earning credits by the right person i.e. someone who has a file you are downloading.

You have no advantage of uploading a rare file, if the person you upload to offers nothing what you want. (I think credits are valid until 3 months after the last contact)

It might help a lot if you upload a lot of a rare file, though, but I think aMule's Release priority is sufficent for the job, it should not be necessary to kick other uploads.

Yes sorry I forgot that    You mean the credits that are stored in the computers to which i uploaded. But this feature is not really working imho. Once gave importance to this feature, then  my computer collapsed and i had  to reinstall emule, forgetting all my personal data, so lost this credits connected with my personal data. Well i was downloading just the same, apparently. I suppose this is because the network is too big and the people to which you upload are nothing with respect to the total participants. So i forgot this feature altogether.

However i may be wrong. So let me consider the case it works and let me consider the most egoist person on the net.  How will he act, using the features of morphxt? Well, he will put in his upload priority list what he likes more, because this way he will have a better chance to get credits just from the persons that have what he likes more.  But this does a good service to the net. The net improves. In fact let us suppose our egoist one likes techno music, he will be full of techno and upload only techno anyway, but in his upload list he will be obliged to put the techno hi likes more. This is a selction service that he does to the net. He will not put a fake into his upload priority, because fakes will most likely go to the wrong persons. Fakes always have many different names and crdits are going to be dispersed. Also fake downloads are likely going to be stopped because comments allow to identify fakes, so he will not get the credits he wants with fakes.

In other words he will be obliged to make a selection. But selecting is high value human work. Something machines are still unable to do. Egoism is energy and we have a chance to put this energy to work for the benefit of the network. And pay nothing for that

Also egoism is not the only instinct that moves people. We humans have also the instinct of sharing. People like to share the best they have if it is free of any charge. This is selection work. It is hard work provided free and renders the network more efficient. Specially now that it is attacked by the majors, even with fakes imho.

So Wuischke, you are right, the release feature of amule goes in the right direction. This is what encouraged me to enter into this forum But improvement never stops. There are 2 features of morphxt that would help a lot:
1. the ability to temporarily and automatically ban clients when an upload with higher upload priority is requested (by far this is the most important)
2.  an upload priority hierarchy, not just a single release chance. May be 2 or 3 upload priority levels.  Morphxt has 5 levels.

Too many words for Kry?    Sorry! just wanted identify the advantages for the network
ciao

[wuischke]

If you lost your identification, you will not be recognized and therefore you will have no advantage of your past's credits.

Your suggestions:
1. VERY bad choice of words. VERY, VERY bad. You want to say that a less priorized upload slot should be closed in favour of a very high priorized file upload.
2. We have 6 + automatic.

[Kry]

Too many words for Kry?    Sorry! just wanted identify the advantages for the network
ciao

Maybe I woke up on the wrong foot today, but you just got your thread closed.