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Author Topic: Discussion about the topic "Attention Ubuntu users! - bug reporting"  (Read 6435 times)

User294

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Then I bet you will have almost zero bug reports from Ubuntu users. Just because there is simple "defaults will always prevail" principle exists.
Actually there is quite few users in the world who both has required skills and then willing to waste his time just because of aMule developers have some nasty bugs in their heads and require too much.

For example now I found strange bug with upload on long-term run.I don't really see how it related to WxWidgets itself.Can you imagine I will throw all my tasks out and will waste a dozen of time compiling WxGtk myself?I can do it but this is time-consuming and I'm not planning to do this anytime soon.And damn, I have to restart aMule and wait some another 3 days to reproduce bug.How simple, duh.And what's value of this effort will be if 99% of Ubuntu users still running another WxGtk version after all? When filing a bug I reasonably consider that if fixed, fix will apply to AS MUCH USERS AS POSSIBLE. If this fix will only help to 1% of users and will NOT help to 99% of users I see no real idea why I should waste my time on filing bug reports. Bugs are filed only for one purpose: users should not be hit with bugs. And who if not developers can detect if bug is distro-specific or not and maybe even try to workaround bugs at least for some popular distros?

Also I'm running aMule from repository offered on your forum.This one not provided by Ubuntu so Ubuntu is not a right place to file bugs, then.What now?Should I bother people who just compiled it?(This person just compiled your version, so I bet it's not too much use bothering him).Or what is expected in such case?

Of course if you're don't care how much users will use your program after all, keep on doing such things. If you want to have as few users using aMule as possible, you're probably on a right course today  :-\
« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 04:07:32 PM by wuischke »
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wuischke

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Re: Attention Ubuntu users! - bug reporting
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2008, 09:59:38 AM »

Hi User294.

Please do not misunderstand the intention of this message. If a problem is caused by aMule, we are very happy about bug reports, which help us fix this. But if a problem is not caused by aMule, but happens on some distributions when using aMule, then there's nothing we can do about it. It's usually caused by some distribution patches, version or packaging issues. We are no general Linux specialists, who can help with every problem or have the time necessary to report these problems to distro maintainers.

We will of course accept bug reports even from a problematic distribution, if it's an aMule problem. We will do so gladly. We appreciate the work of everybody helping us to improve aMule, this includes Festor with his Ubuntu packages. And this includes people like you, who report bugs.

Alright?
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User294

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Re: Attention Ubuntu users! - bug reporting
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2008, 02:16:18 AM »

Then I guess this message should be made non distro-specific and, after all, it is you are who can detect if you're wrong place to report certain issue. And even if at the end of day it comes that it is not exactly your fault, this may help to file bug to certain distro or give you idea how to work this around so more users can use aMule without being hit by nasty issues. As a final result this will not be total and useless waste of time since this will help more users to have better experience when running aMule, after all. So IMHO this can be worth of trying anyway. Of course if you care how much users will use it. Yeah, in ideal world in theory you should not deal with all this crap and I can even imagine how this hurts. However, in real world and on practice ... umm... we all know, "sh*t happens". And ignoring this fact + taking into account that Ubuntu is #1 distro in the world will lead to simple fact: there will be dozens of users who abandoned aMule and believe it's bugged crap (sorry for having to say that but there is lots of such users already). So you should try to make aMule to run under major distros (Ubuntu, SuSE, Mandriva, Debian) without major issues IMHO. And maybe even apply workarounds if necessary. I know this sucks but that world is not ideal anyway.

P.S. now I got idea why Kry not likes Ubuntu but hmm, let's admit that other apps are usually working just fine here so from user's point of view this is hardly looking as a benefit of aMule anyway.

And sorry for some flaming ;D.Actually, I should admit I had pretty unpleasant experience when attempted to report bug.Actually I never seen such inadequate reaction on bug reports while I filed bugz to a number of projects.
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wuischke

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Re: Attention Ubuntu users! - bug reporting
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2008, 07:05:24 PM »

Don't you worry, I've got a flame proof vest.

To be frank and explain my personal point of view: aMule is just a hobby for me and I couldn't care less about the users. I love the work in an international team with many contributors, get some language practice and learn a lot, but I don't even use the application myself.

It stops being a hobby when it stops being fun. If people go on my nerves, I ignore them in the best case and in the worst case I just stop working.

I just ask the question - what will these users do for me? They are consuments, they are not going to contribute to the project and my life won't change when these people don't use aMule. I have no motivation to make sure these users can use aMule and I owe them nothing. So why should I care? Thus I don't.
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Stu Redman

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Re: Attention Ubuntu users! - bug reporting
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2008, 11:54:11 PM »

Come on, wuischke. I bet it is giving you some kick to be thinking about lots of people around the globe using your work, and hopefully happily. And thinking "hey, I'm one of the cool guys who made this possible". That's how it works for me anyway.  ;D

To get back to a technical level: user294 might have some point about the Ubuntu packages provided here. How are they compiled ? With Ubuntu libs or with self-compiled ? And if they are self-compiled - are they linked static or dynamic ? A dynamic link against self compiled libs, which is then run against Ubuntu's .so-libs might really steer the apple cart downhill.

BtW: I suggest you split this thread behind the first post, and lock the sticky part. Diskussions like this don't belong in a sticky post imho.
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The image of mother goddess, lying dormant in the eyes of the dead, the sheaf of the corn is broken, end the harvest, throw the dead on the pyre -- Iron Maiden, Isle of Avalon

Kry

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Re: Attention Ubuntu users! - bug reporting
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2008, 03:53:02 PM »

User294, I think you missed the part where the bug you reported is a major fuckup by Ubuntu that affects way more applications that aMule. You could have learned that by reading the link I posted in my response, but you decide to keep flaming us. When Ubuntu fucks up like that, we're the ones that have to read how everyone complains about aMule being crappy, we're the ones that have to research what is causing thtat problem (LIKE I DID WITH YOUR BUG REPORT) and we are the ones that have to tell people that is Ubuntu's fault (LIKE I DID IN YOUR BUG REPORT). And then, I have to listen to you flaming us for telling you it's Ubuntu's fault. If you love doing us the great favour of reporting a bug, why don't you do the same with ubuntu IN THE FUCKING LINK I GAVE YOU?

Seriously, what's wrong with you? Just suck it up, it's Ubuntu's problem, we don't fix (and 99% of the time can't fix)  problems caused by distributions, and that's all. Ubuntu has screwed us over since day 1 of this application, most of the non-fixed bug reports are from Ubuntu users because Ubuntu creates the problems, not us. Sometimes the Ubuntu packages have patches that change functionality (Festor knows how I feel about this already) and sometimes in the past they have introduced bugs. Other times, they fuck up basic libraries and aMule is affected, like in this case, which was reported for the first time in January.

And yes, for user-contributed packages you have to bug the person that makes the package, or compile the application yourself (including wxWidgets usually) before reporting a bug to us. That's what package mantainers are for, it's a shitty job but I'm incredibly grateful they do it. We're busy enough dealing with creating valid and working source code to have to deal with how other people messes up compiling that code. We even have very detailed compilation instructions in our wiki.

What you're doing is the equivalent of going to buy a car, having the vendor scratch your car's paint with a rusty knife and then going to complain to the car's manufacturer. Put responsibility in the proper place.
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wuischke

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Re: Discussion about the topic "Attention Ubuntu users! - bug reporting"
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2008, 04:25:30 PM »

I've split and moved the topic as suggested.

Festor's packages use Ubuntu libraries, dynamically linked.

Well, it's giving me "kicks" to see people get passionate about aMule in a way that they spend their free time to improve it and I was a part of giving them that passion. That's a very rewarding experience.
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