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Author Topic: kilobit vs kilobyte  (Read 11750 times)

mistiff

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kilobit vs kilobyte
« on: July 05, 2009, 07:06:07 PM »
In telecommunications, data transfer rate is measured in kilobits per second just like popular technologies we use today: Ethernet, DSL, USB, SATA and many others.

So why does aMule (and eMule) use kilobytes? It just adds confusion to something that should be using kilobits anyway. Why the fuss of converting the ISP's DSL kilobits into kilobytes?
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Stu Redman

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2009, 07:14:37 PM »
Because outsides telecommunication nobody counts anything in bits. And they use it only because it sounds like more (especially the DSL providers).  :P
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myth

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2009, 07:44:57 PM »
Yeah, true! :D

...MEGABIT!!!...sounds better than Kilobyte... :P
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mistiff

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2009, 09:04:18 PM »
Quote from: Stu Redman on July 05, 2009, 07:14:37 PM
Because outsides telecommunication nobody counts anything in bits. And they use it only because it sounds like more (especially the DSL providers).  :P
You may be right, but there is an industry convention to specify:
Data size in bytes => Hard Drives, RAM, etc.
Data transfer in bits => Ethernet, DSL, USB, SATA, etc.

Therefore, it's kind of wrong to use bytes for speed.
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GonoszTopi

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2009, 09:10:50 PM »
Quote from: mistiff on July 05, 2009, 09:04:18 PM
Data transfer in bits
You mean you want to see uploaded/downloaded total in bits? (it's data tranfer...)  :P

More seriously, do you also want to see up/down speeds in bits instead of bytes? Or do you mean only the line capacity values, making unobvious for the rest of the settings?
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concordia cum veritate

wuischke

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2009, 09:16:00 PM »
You're right about data transfer numbers, but:

Have a look at utorrent, eMule, <insert popular file sharing application here>. - They use KiloByte. Users of file sharing applications came to expect numbers in KiloByte.

We can't change to another unit, because this would confuse users endlessly. Remember when they introduced the Euro? ;)
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mistiff

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2009, 11:02:09 PM »
Quote from: wuischke on July 05, 2009, 09:16:00 PM
Have a look at utorrent, eMule, <insert popular file sharing application here>. - They use KiloByte. Users of file sharing applications came to expect numbers in KiloByte.
You're right but it is confusing for the user. The point I want to bring is that a user buys bandwidth in bits but P2P programs use bytes. Therefore, it brings confusion for many people, both techs and non-techs. The average user will not see a difference between kB, Kb, KB, and kb.

aMule's Line Capacities and Bandwidth Limits are in KB but it should be in kb because the ISPs use bits. (The user is forced to convert kb into KB.)
aMule's Disk Space is correct to specify MB as it is data size.
aMule's File Buffer Size is correct to specify bytes because it is data size but it brings another unit into play. Why use bytes and not KB? The minimum is 15000bytes anyway so why not 15KB?

In any case, I would like to see both aMule and eMule have consistent measurements. It would be wrong for aMule to divert its path.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 11:05:01 PM by mistiff »
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Stu Redman

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2009, 11:48:29 PM »
Quote from: mistiff on July 05, 2009, 11:02:09 PM
Therefore, it brings confusion for many people, both techs and non-techs.
No, it doesn't. Nobody but you is confused.
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The average user will not see a difference between kB, Kb, KB, and kb.
Correct. (Neither will I without looking it up.) That's why we consistently use bytes. (plain, kilo, mega, giga, as appropriate.)
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aMule's Line Capacities and Bandwidth Limits are in KB but it should be in kb because the ISPs use bits.
So complain at the ISPs for using confusing units to make their numbers bigger.
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aMule's File Buffer Size is correct to specify bytes because it is data size but it brings another unit into play. Why use bytes and not KB? The minimum is 15000bytes anyway so why not 15KB?
Oh come on. Now you're picking on a setting in the ADVANCED section. And why don't you complain we show big downloads in MB and GB, huh?
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It would be wrong for aMule to divert its path.
LOL.

Edit: just updated my Ubuntu and guess how it displays the download speed ? In kB/s. (Or was it KB? - Don't get me started on this.)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 12:12:50 AM by Stu Redman »
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Kry

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2009, 04:23:35 AM »
I agree with making this change...

... as soon as every popular browser and file transfer application shows download speeds in kilobits.
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^marcell^

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2009, 10:37:47 AM »
Don't use KB. It looks like "Kelvin Byte". Please use kB instead.
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wuischke

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2009, 11:24:34 AM »
Shouldn't we use the Ki-prefix? :D

*runs away very, very fast*
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^marcell^

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2009, 11:37:12 AM »
OK, that explains some things. Thanks! ;)
aMule mainly uses "kB", but "KB" for example in the extended search parameters.
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myth

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2009, 11:38:15 AM »
Run! :D

...I think the best thing is to let it like it is ;)
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mistiff

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2009, 12:47:22 PM »
Quote from: GonoszTopi on July 05, 2009, 09:10:50 PM
More seriously, do you also want to see up/down speeds in bits instead of bytes? Or do you mean only the line capacity values, making unobvious for the rest of the settings?
Only: Preferences => Connection => Bandwidth limits

Quote from: Kry on July 06, 2009, 04:23:35 AM
... as soon as every popular browser and file transfer application shows download speeds in kilobits.
I was not talking about file transfer speed, like when you download a file in Firefox. Firefox correctly states KB/sec in order to be consistent with the download size. It would be stupid to state kb/sec as it is a different unit of measurement and would therefore confuse the user.

I was talking about the values you have to place in the Connection Settings in eMule. The ISP states kilobits, but those eMule settings are in kilobytes. In my opinion, it would be more user friendly to state those values also in kilobits, just as the ISP states. Maybe I should have mentioned earlier that I was referring to this specific section in the aMule settings. Oops!

Since the average user will not realize there is a difference when they see the abbreviations kb and kB written somewhere in eMule (I disagree with Stu Redman), I bet many people have their connection settings wrong. I even bet there are many users that buy bandwidth from the ISP thinking they are buying MB when they are really buying Mb. Many ISPs advertise MEGAS so you have to read the small print where they state Mb.

Stu Redman: (off the record)
Why do you use Ubuntu? You have to go through the fuss of upgrading it every 6 months and risk possible upgrade problems. Why not just use Debian Testing or Unstable which gets updated continuously? (Ubuntu gets its repositories from Debian Unstable.)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 01:00:35 PM by mistiff »
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Stu Redman

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Re: kilobit vs kilobyte
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2009, 11:01:18 PM »
Quote from: wuischke on July 06, 2009, 11:24:34 AM
Shouldn't we use the Ki-prefix? :D
I'm tempted to slap you.  ;)

Quote from: iz0bbz on July 06, 2009, 11:05:17 AM
KB=1024 bytes;  kB=1000 bytes.
No. KB = 1024 (Jedec), KiB = 1024 (IEC), kB = 1000 or 1024, whoever you talk to, or whatever you like best. Yeah, k usually stands for 1000, but NOT in the byte context. See here.

Quote from: mistiff on July 06, 2009, 12:47:22 PM
Why do you use Ubuntu?
Actually I'm using Vista. I just have Ubuntu running in a sandbox for testing aMule. It's simple to set up and use and has the widest user base.
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The image of mother goddess, lying dormant in the eyes of the dead, the sheaf of the corn is broken, end the harvest, throw the dead on the pyre -- Iron Maiden, Isle of Avalon
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