aMule Forum
English => Feature requests => Topic started by: rufus on January 05, 2007, 11:04:49 AM
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A few things you might consider.
0. drop the icons; use text instead.
1. split the window in two: a column on the left, and the main window on the right.
2. split the left column in three: the first is a search entry, the second stores
all the search queries, the third is a navigation panel. The nav panel consists of
four items: network, chat, downloads, uploads. The number of connections, etc,
is summarised in the nav panel.
aMule's network window and statistics window can be grouped in a well-designed
main window corresponding to "network" in the navigation panel.
aMule's search window goes away. It is replaced by the above search entry.
If you click on the search query (second window to the left), the main window
shows all the results. On top of the main window, specific for each query,
is a configuration panel that allows you to filter the query using various
constraints, such as file type, file size, etc.
As above for aMule's chat window.
aMule's configuration and partfile importer can be triggered from the main menue.
This cleans up the GUI a lot. It is a job that should take no longer than a weekend.
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screenshot for the download window
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screenshot for the search window
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clutter free, elegant, to the point, easy to maintain and port.
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Originally posted by rufus
A few things you might consider.
0. drop the icons; use text instead.
No. I like the toolbar, I like the icons, and they are intuitive and fast to reach.
Originally posted by rufus
1. split the window in two: a column on the left, and the main window on the right.
Point being? This creates less space for search result lists, resulting in cutting the file names or some of the columns, like the filesize, availability, etc. Same with download list. The point of a list with columns like the download and search lists is to show as much info as possible, which you're harming by putting a left list that takes like 20% of the space. Not to mention you change icons into text, so it takes much more space. It goes against presenting as much info to the user as possible. This is related to "0.", too.
Originally posted by rufus
2. split the left column in three: the first is a search entry, the second stores
all the search queries, the third is a navigation panel. The nav panel consists of
four items: network, chat, downloads, uploads. The number of connections, etc,
is summarised in the nav panel.
You do realize this is not a gnutella app? That means something: downloads/uploads are more important than searches. Searching is something very rare in comparison to getting links from sites, or just looking the trasnfers going. Such priority having searches on the gui belongs to a gnutella app, not an ed2k app. If anything, an ed2k app must be centered around transfers, not searches.
Originally posted by rufus
aMule's network window and statistics window can be grouped in a well-designed
main window corresponding to "network" in the navigation panel.
How are you gonna fit server list, app logs, server logs, server messages, server adding interface, serverlist url download, kademlia nodes graph, kademlia bootstrap, kademlia url list download, 3 graphs with resolution enough to see upload, download and connections, and a full statistical tree in "a well-designed main window"? It's gonna be a hell of a multi-monitor window, or one with so small items you can't even see them.
Originally posted by rufus
aMule's search window goes away. It is replaced by the above search entry.
If you click on the search query (second window to the left), the main window
shows all the results. On top of the main window, specific for each query,
is a configuration panel that allows you to filter the query using various
constraints, such as file type, file size, etc.
Read comments above about why searches doesn't need to be so prominent on the GUI at all.
Originally posted by rufus
As above for aMule's chat window.
As above for aMule's chat window.
Originally posted by rufus
aMule's configuration and partfile importer can be triggered from the main menue.
Which main menu? Where is it? I can't see it in your screenshots at all. What's its contents?
Originally posted by rufus
This cleans up the GUI a lot.
No, it justs makes it look better to someone like you that is used to such interface.
Originally posted by rufus
It is a job that should take no longer than a weekend.
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It takes longer to persuade than to actually do things...
> 0. I like the toolbar, I like the icons, and they are intuitive and fast to reach.
I do not like them at all. On mac os, they are the ugliest thing ever. I'll post a screenshot so that you can see it. They are also not intuitive (the right word says more). As far as fast to reach, it is a matter of taste/habit.
> 1. This creates less space for search result lists, resulting in cutting the file names or some of the columns, like the filesize, availability, etc. Same with download list. The point of a list with columns like the download and search lists is to show as much info as possible, which you're harming by putting a left list that takes like 20% of the space. Not to mention you change icons into text, so it takes much more space. It goes against presenting as much info to the user as possible.
Why? You can slide that middle bar, just like I keep sliding many more bars in aMule. The difference is that on cabos you slide only one, if you really have to. This takes away no space at all to the download list, as you can see in the picture. Please note that it was taken on a 12" display, and the window was not full-screen. The space is very well organized, and if I can say so on a 12" display, you can take my word for it.
>2. You do realize this is not a gnutella app? That means something: downloads/uploads are more important than searches. Searching is something very rare in comparison to getting links from sites, or just looking the trasnfers going. Such priority having searches on the gui belongs to a gnutella app, not an ed2k app. If anything, an ed2k app must be centered around transfers, not searches.
download/uploads have exactly the same space as in the original aMule. The search bar to the left is very important when you have multiple queries. This is something that aMule does very badly. If you have more than five queries on aMule, they run out of the window. I'll show this in the screenshot. Further, when cabos opens, it remembers your favorite queries in the list; aMule does not. This is something that I miss a lot.
> How are you gonna fit server list, app logs, server logs, server messages, server adding interface, serverlist url download, kademlia nodes graph, kademlia bootstrap, kademlia url list download, 3 graphs with resolution enough to see upload, download and connections, and a full statistical tree in "a well-designed main window"? It's gonna be a hell of a multi-monitor window, or one with so small items you can't even see them.
Nay. Just use the menu in the right window to organize it all. There are essentially two windows in aMule, one for the network and one for the statistics. Keep them as they are,
and allow the user to switch between them using the text menue. It is straightforward.
> Read comments above about why searches doesn't need to be so prominent on the GUI at all.
Read my comment above, on why aMule is poorly designed on this task.
> As above for aMule's chat window.
Why? It is exactly the same as the original aMule, without the graphical icon!!!
I think you just like dismissing ideas other than your own.
You are dogmatic and unwilling to see the good in other approaches.
In the image below, I have arranged the bar to the left. Picture a wider column, and replace the icons with text, and you have it. The old search window becomes the first and second part of the left window. The filtering in the old search window becomes dynamic filtering in the main window, so that one can search on the fly. The problem with multiple searches that disappear in the window is simply solved by having a proper list of queries, and possibly one that is remembered across sessions.
All the best.
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... compare the same search under cabos. As you can see, it is possible
to slide the bar, and have plenty of space for everything.
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Originally posted by rufus
I think you just like dismissing ideas other than your own.
You are dogmatic and unwilling to see the good in other approaches.
Protip: While I did indeed do part of the current GUI, specially the Kad window, I dind't code most of the rest, and a lot of it is very similar to eMule. So sorry, I'm not defending my ideas, but those I consider right, but I don't resort to insult yours. I could.
I tried, I really tried. Everyone that knows me must be surprised I tried so hard, SO hard, to make some constructive discussion with you about the GUI. You do, however, resot to personal attacks and insults at the minimal attempt.
So, I'm sorry, but it's not possible to discuss anything with you. I'm not closing the thread because others might want to argue with you, but next personal attack to anyone in this forum, and the thread is locked, along with you being banned from this forum/server.
Now, start the FASCIST! scream.
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I have never insulted you. I am, and was, very far from it. The fact that people have a different opinion, and thus have a discussion and try hard to persuade you out of your dogmas, does not mean that they are insulting you. Calm down, and accept opinions different than your own. This is, after all, plain democracy. I respect your view of things. I respect it, but I do not share it. Can you tell the difference?
I can see from the source code that you used wxDesigner (a commercial GUI designer). This means that, if you want, you can rearrange the GUI as I specified, and do it in about 30 minutes, which is much less then the time you waste cursing users, and accusing them to insult you. I do not own a licence for wxDesigner, so it would be a lot of work for me to dive into machine generated code. And I have spent enough of my time, with you not showing appreciation.
kiss goodbye
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Originally posted by Kry
So, I'm sorry, but it's not possible to discuss anything with you.
God, I love quoting myself.
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I'd like to put my 5cents here.
Proposed GUI change is wrong. Here's few reasons "why".
1. It's counter-intuitive for anyone who used eMule
2. It's contradicting almost all GUI guidlenes for both gnome (linux) and Windows.
3. I fail to see why it's better. I mean, there's nothing wrong w/ toolbar - most application have it in one form or another.
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Rufus, you are new here and so you probably don't know about the unwritten 'basic rules'.
Every feature request will be discussed here and everyone has the right to tell his ideas about this. In fact, it is very democratic in this matter. Don't be discouraged when Kry speaks against your idea, there are other people as well and - even if you call Kry dogmatic - he did change his opinion after sane reasoning already - now he's even coding the Protocol Obfuscation support, a feature he really disliked in first discussions.
But: Do not forget, that a very important part of a discussion is to stick with the topic and not to talk about some participants.
OK, now back to topic. Rufus, I do fully agree to your point of the aMule GUI not being the best one around, but nonetheless it is functional. Whilst I don't need eye-candy I prefer a GUI to be clear (the less functions the better) and fast to navigate.
Menus are slower to navigate than a toolbar (but better for presenting a large number of options like e.g. in GIMP) and Icons are easier to be clicked than a text.
I consider the search window pretty good after the redsign, although still not perfect. (Though I don't know how to do better.)
The worst part (imho) are the preferences. They are completely separated from the application.
A slideable sidebar is a good feature as it is a good compromise of space usage and usability, but it can't be integrated into every design as it requires a certain number of related functions.
I think you know as well as I do it is very improbable, that your cabos-like GUI will be aMule's standard GUI. This shouldn't matter as the evil rude main developer named Kry is currently working on a new version of a really great feature: External connections.
This way it is pretty easy to create your own GUI for aMule. Designing the 'perfect' GUI should not be a problem - you said it could be done in a weekend.
The implementation of EC to get date/control amule is slightly more complicated (Cpp-knowledge required), but I offer you my personal help in this issue and I think I'm not the only one helping you should one see you're serious about this.
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But I wasn't even rude!
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Cheer up, emo k...uhm. :))
No, I was really surprised of your patience with him and you _did_ stick to the topic and did _not_ talk bad about him in any way.
I was referring to your self-given user title:
Main Developer / Admin / Rude
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Originally posted by wuischke
No, I was really surprised of your patience with him and you _did_ stick to the topic and did _not_ talk bad about him in any way.
*here*
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@Kry:
Do you know the current status of wxCocoa? (IIRC, you're also involved with the wxWidgets developement, otherwise just forget about this question)
Just because i recently managed to get amule compile with wxCocoa, but it looked like shit (it wasn't usable) - and i wondered if thats because of amule (which was optimized for wxMac/wxCarbon, but probably could be tweaked for cocoa as well), or wxWidgets (which couldn't really be fixed in a decent amount of time)
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It's wxWidget's fault.
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Just want to make things clear (IMHO):
* Current GUI suffers from several major drawbacks
* "Search" tab is definitely not well-designed
* Reworking External Connections may be interesting exercise, but will not have great effect on user-experience.
* Using closed source tool for GUI design is a mistake. The mere fact that developer agreed to grant some licenses doesn't change anything.
* The tool itself is bad. Again, I have nothing personal against developer, just IMHO tool is technically bad and we shouldn't be using it.
Given above points, I thing that changing GUI into Mac-styled-no-toolbar is bad idea.
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Given his earlier post, I'm guessing lfroen had an extra negative in his last sentence. :)
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Fixed 8o