aMule Forum
English => aMule News => Topic started by: Kry on September 30, 2004, 10:14:00 PM
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Ok, RC6 this weekend.
I swear.
Bugged or not bugged, working or not working, but RC6 this weekend.
(99% sure it will be not bugged and working but, who knows ;))
Changelog is well... long. Will post it soon :)
Yes, I said soon. Any problem? :P
We want also to welcome our Brand New Developer: GonoszTopi! :D. He came, he patched, he got to be developer. So you know what to do, people: get patches for the aMule team! We want YOU on the team (but only if you are evil enough).
Unless a suddent change of mind, GonoszTopi will be in charge of the revamping of the EC code, so that core/gui communication and amulecmd/amuleweb get much faster than it is. So please all give a big round of applausses to him!
:baby:
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i´m really waiting rc6... i hope it works well!
lets wait! :)
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clap clap clap GonoszTopi ;-)
"weekend", "soon", "I swear" <- hum... xP
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Clap clap clap clap !!!!
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yeah, applause, and besides of that: aMule in CVS is actually around 0.75 MB smaller.
That's a great job.
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Well, that's just from removing unused images and other files ;)
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Look I'm not bugging you developers :]
It's just a question...
Thanks
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hey
gkt2 is working
if !!!!!!!!
you use wxGTK 2.5.1 or higher!!!
I am would recommend you to wait also till 3rd oct and get wxGTK 2.5.3, this is the best choice since you have good speed and also a working webserver with 2.5.3
compile wxGTK with
--enable-optimize --enable-gtk2 --prefix=/usr/
and if you want
--enable-unicode
this will work without problem. there are some gtk2 version where wxGTK is buggy with, espially the new once like in gentoo. but try it yourself.
compile amule rc6 with
--enable-optimize --disable-debug
and if you want
--enable-webserver
for example
stefanero
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Nice . :baby:
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nevermind...
just days like these i don't feel like living.
useless to ask why...life is inherently unfair, I must make do with what is dealt me.
thanks for supporting xmule.
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Ted, thanks for coming around, but please, leave us alone :)
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Originally posted by HopeSeekr
nevermind...
just days like these i don't feel like living.
useless to ask why...life is inherently unfair, I must make do with what is dealt me.
thanks for supporting xmule.
I've been following the situation of xMule and aMule for a while. It's nothing personal, but...if you release software under the GPL license, you can expect things like this. Open source soft is FREE (free as freedom of speech ;) ), and anybody is free to take it, modify it, fork it, develop or not develop it, etc...so don't say that life is unfair... :P
Also, if you've lost a lot of devs (who have passed to develop aMule), it's your problem, not theirs. I remember you that they are also free to develop either xMule or aMule. If the devs left xMule, try to retake them with convincing and mature arguments, look for another devs, or do xMule alone, but don't come here complaining about it. You are going to win nothing with this.
Nothing else. Sorry for my bad english :P
[On-topic] Waiting for RC6..... :P :P :P I hope that someone will release a RPM for Mandrake soon....
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Originally posted by Targaryen
I've been following the situation of xMule and aMule for a while. It's nothing personal, but...if you release software under the GPL license, you can expect things like this. Open source soft is FREE (free as freedom of speech ;) ), and anybody is free to take it, modify it, fork it, develop or not develop it, etc...so don't say that life is unfair... :P
Also, if you've lost a lot of devs (who have passed to develop aMule), it's your problem, not theirs. I remember you that they are also free to develop either xMule or aMule. If the devs left xMule, try to retake them with convincing and mature arguments, look for another devs, or do xMule alone, but don't come here complaining about it. You are going to win nothing with this.
Ive also followed the lmule/xmule/amule/sharedeamon history before choosing a client.
At one point i read a post of his (on his other site) where he moaned about the efects of the GPL; also one of the reasons for the split (for what i could gather) was also his decision to go closed source on a future version of the client.
A very strong reason why i didnt choose xmule was because of him; a lot of what he does gives him a very bad image, as far as im concerned:
- the constant re-writing of his posts (as evidenced here),
- the constant moaning,
- the idea that he gives, 80% of the time, that xmule is an one-man show (true, he probably does a lot of the work, and im not questioning his quality as a developer) when it is (and should be considered) a team work.
So in the end he achieves what he wants, ppl associate him with xmule, but its the project loss.
He may be a good developer, but isnt a good project manager (obvious).
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The difference is that we praise Tiku. Tiku was the guy that made ALL possible, while HopeSeekr keeps telling that he was the one. Without Tiku, we would have no real ed2k client for linux. It's a shame that Tiku is mostly unknown by the vast majority of the users, and we'll have to fix it.
Tiku ported ALL eMule 0.26 to linux, ALONE. COMPLETELY ALONE. Later, other people joined, xMule was forked from it (yes ted, forked from it. I was there), and the former lmule developers not on xMule dropped it. And Tiku dissapeared.
Tiku is our God our Mentat, our Sensei. Without Tiku, there would be nothing.
On the other side, HopeSeekr's work on xMule the first 3 months, when Madcat and I were there, made Macat leave xMule to develoop SD from scratch, and while I was away for personal problems, BigBob forked it to aMule. When I got back, after knowing the reason for both guys to leave and fork, I decided to join aMule, for I had already had too much of HopeSeekr too. And yes, closing source of xMule (which, btw, is completely impossible unless one write it from scratch), was one of the reasons.
The main problem here is the complete different view of developing free software that HopeSeekr has, compared to i.e, the aMule team or Madcat.
*) HopeSeekr has always stated that he wants to make profit from xMule. He is always asking for donations, he is always stating how much money he wants because he works on xMule for FREE and users 'owe' him the donations, etc. He wants to close xMule's source because he wants to make profit from it. One of the main reasons Madcat and I left, was because he wanted to do 'xMule plus' (which can be seen on sourceforge.net as registered project). "xMule plus" would be a closed source client which you could use only if you paid a certain amount of money every x time, and that would get you first on queue on any "xMule plus" AND xMule clients. Madcat and I of course refused to do so, and, in the end, that was the main reason of we leaving, despite the fact that HopeSeekr is a person we both do not like, for lots of reasons that shouldn't be stated here, as I'm trying to just give a '3rd party' view of all the xMule/aMule history.
*) On the other hand, aMule developers and Madcat (our guest star in some releases), and aMule testers, and everyone on the aMule comunity that I know of, have a very different view. We make aMule for the users, and we see it as a contribution to the world. We spend our spare time developing, browsing forums, helping people, translating, taking care of the #amule on freenode, and so on. But what makes us different is the we NEVER look for a profit on aMule. If it comes, it's welcome, for we never refuse the donations, of course. But you will never see us asking directly for a donation or giving the image that the users 'owe' something to us. It's US who owe the people the fact that they use aMule, and support us in any way. We're friends, and we do this for fun and, why not, for improving our skills and be proud of ourselves.
With such different views of the free software world, HopeSeekr could never work with us. And that's why he has his project (tho I want to point again that he didn't make it, for Tiku was the one making lmule and xMule was just lmule back then), and we have our project.
We just request to be able to have peace, tho he keeps attacking us in every way (eMule project posts, spamming at #wxwidgets on freenode, spamming on the very #amule on freenode, wxWidgets mailing lists, lphant project forums, even on a discussion about the Mozilla license I found direct attacks to the aMule project coming from him, and of course, and at least one or two times per week, on xmule's website and forums. And that's only what I can remember with the big hangover I have right now. There are much more).
But what I will NEVER let him say is that he is the creator of xMule or that aMule would never be without him. It was TIKU, for god's shake, who made all. ALL. HopeSeekr contributed to lmule project for about a month, then to xMule for 3 months, and NOTHING more is contributed by him on the aMule sourcecode. The fact he keeps developing xMule doesn't change the fact that aMule has been being developed for more than a year already. total time contributed by HopeSeekr: about 4 months. The total time contributed by almost all developers of aMule is much more than HopeSeekr's one. I have been contributing, since I joined lmule/xMule (I joined just in the middle of the fork), for 14 months (June 2003 + Sep 2003 - Oct 2004). Xaignar has been here developing more than half a year. DeltaHF has been here for a year. Phoenix, aprox. same time than Xaignar. Hetfield contributed to xMule and then to aMule, has been here as long as DeltaHF. BigBog after forking xMule to aMule has been here till the administrative probles on Feb 2004. Stefanero, lfroen, shakraw, falso, niet, ThePolish (efe), Jacobo, Unleashed, everyone active now and the former developers (don't forget Emilio Sandoz, lemonfan, etc etc - sorry if I can't remember everyone), had been here for more than 4 months.
There's another fact to consider: bedboi and pure_ascii, former lmule developers, has been on aMule, while not on xMule. Uberpenguin (HELLO UBER! HOW'S YOUR KROKODIL DOING?) had contributed the xMule logo and then the aMule logo (and he's not credited by HopeSeekr on the xMule website, btw, even when he uses it), lots of icons, and generally to keeping the good mood and the friendship we all aMule developers/contributors/etc share.
Hum. I'll finish my post here, too much to read already. But please, never think HopeSeekr is responsive for the *Mule on linux. I fell so bad about Tiku, the REAL one, everytime I read that, that I really feel like posting things like this one.
Enough said.
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well, nothing else to add to Kry's and Seagull posts...
...although I remember you that open source software doesn't mean free software, so Hopeseeker was in his right of close-source it (if he rewrites it completely, I think....I don't remember the complete GPL), and make ppl pay for it. But, equally, aMule devs were in their right to fork xMule while it was GPL, and are in their right to continue developing aMule as they want... 8o
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"if he rewrites it completely" <- sure, that's the big IF ;-)
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although I remember you that open source software doesn't mean free software, so Hopeseeker was in his right of close-source it (if he rewrites it completely, I think....I don't remember the complete GPL)
I don't get the point on your sentence. Yes, Open source is not the same as free software. But if he closes it, then it's not open software, neither is free if he makes people pay for it.
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Under the GPL license (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html) and the Free Software definition (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html), yes it can be free while, at the same time, making people pay for it, as long as it is free to see/modify the code and free to redistribute.
Anyway, I don't think that was in HopeSeekr's mind (if he knew at all) ;-)
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"Thus, you should be free to redistribute copies, either with or without modifications, either gratis or charging a fee for distribution"
Well, that makes kinnda pointless to make people pay for an app if they can distribute it freely afterwards...
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I don't understand it, too...but it seems to be Hope's plans.... :P
bah, nevermind.
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just one final thing.
for the most part i *have* done 80% of the work of xmule and i *do* spend roughly 100 hours a week programming it...for free.
the point of re-rewriting is os that i can *AVOID* FORKS...to make it easier to NEGOTIATE AND WORK WITH than work APART AND THEN ATTACK TO GET USERS.
I'm not against freedom...I'm for getting peace of mind out of my work and from people who visit my website, both of which are *severely* hampered/attacked by hostile forks such as aMule (created on the very day I was subpaenad by the MPAA and had my internet connection cut off just to prove that BigBob could do more than just edit XML files (he didn't do shit until kry came..in order to take over a project, which he failed to do w/ xMule but could and did with the non-coder bigbob)).
Look at DynPrefs of xmule...It's EXACTLY what I want the future of xMule to be:
a) Incapable of being used by viral freedom-restricting licenses such as the GPL (which is really the only one)
b) 100% open source
c) 100% free to use in *any* way so long as permission is gained before modification, so as to guarantee working together
d) ability to use in commercial settings, for this is the *ONLY* way Peer-2-Peer will *ever* become MAINSTREAM in a legal way.
But I don't expect people to realize my visions. You can barely grasp how xMule is being used in China right now, which I have first hand knowledge of. how we're using it in conjunction with outragedmoderates.org. How Alex Jones of Freedom-TV and infowars.com is planning to integrate it to offset bandwidth restrictions.
But then again, I'm out to change the world, and aMule and the mental and emotional stress the bulk of its developers have caused me (uber, what the fuck did i *ever* do to the bulk of you to deserve this shit? This forsaking? Have any of you *EVER* cried the way this hostile fork makes me cry whenever Kry gets up my ass in private? The way he and delta forced me to the brink of suicide by their downright insiduously hurtful comments back when I was at the lowest point of my life (Jan-Feb 04)?? No?? Maybe it's because i keep these things private.
If you want someone with VISION, come to me. All I lack is time. Dedication and perseverence i have plenty of, and *NO*ONE* EXCEPT KRY AND MADCAT HAVE THOUGHT I AM A DIFFICULT PERSON TO WORK WITH! NO ONE! I have been emotionally unstable at times, but you would too if you came from the shithole I've been in most of 2003/2004 with the very notable exception of 2 weeks in November.
Anyway...i got as far as Kry's 1st two sentences in this thread and then i wanted to throw up, literally. I can't stand Kry, Kry... *EDITED AND REMOVED THE REFERENCES TO MY PRIVATE LIFE* ...after all that, the things you've fucking said to me the things you've done, the things you've said about me, the LIES you perpetrate that I am for the most part too much of a man to directly attack... Goddammit, you are one of five people on this planet that I would really like to smack around, and delta...you're the other one. The only other 3 are Persa's dad, brother, and my father...all for similiar reasons.
I HATE people like you Kry! Why?! BECAUSE YOU ARE JUST LIKE THE FUCKING DONOR OF MY Y CHROMOSOME!!! And every one treats you the same too! You can do no wrong! You are the model citizen.
A dog will wimper when caught. A snake will stare straight back and then strike whenever the opportunity presents itself, generally making itself likable beforehand. All I can say is that you are a really mean person when there is nothing for you to lose.
And like my father, like Persa's dad, you can maintain that "perfect citizen" composure, that flawless saint facade, and EVERY ONE believes you because every one instinctively wants to believe their leader is a Man before a Snake.
hopefully this will help people see how naked the emperor truly is.
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one other thing.,..
IF you were such a great saint, you would like nothing more than to take me up on my offer...the same one i've made public numerous times over the last year since aMule has existed...
Peace Attempt #13
If you are man enough to accept...simply take a vacation from aMule for one week. Let me work with the development team for one week. It will take me roughly 3 days probably to get up-to-date on what aMule has accomplished, how it has significantly changed from xMule, and what its goals are. The next 4 days I can spend coding.
I do not need CVS write access...aLL i want to do is see how aMule's team is structured so that I can learn from it, and at the same time prove once and for all to all the people who have never worked with me (no one but you and madcat have on the entire amule team) that I am not a 'dictator' (in fact, i'm too much of a pushover) and am not some closed-sourced fool.
Basically I just want to prove that YOU, delta, and madcat are personally the reasons this war exists and then, once more diplomatic ties have been estabilished by this little exercise, we can forge ahead in joint cooperation because more than just one person on your team will realize they can have dialog with me without getting you involved.
Basically at this point it isn't so much about working *with* you but working with *others* *despite* of you. It will take *much* strength from both of us...both of us will have to overlook how we are benefiting the other, in order to accomplish the greater goods of harmonious co-development of a single product.
I must face that i am directly promoting your ego while simultaneously denying mine (which is already incredibly low). that I must take, albiet in as indirect as possible, your edicts to heart regarding the direction of amule. that i must necessarily correct your mistakes and be absolutely submissive to things that I would normally call stupid, all because i'm humble enough to admit i'm imperfect.
You would have to face the very scary prospect of others seeing through your lies, of possibly learning you haven't mastered C++ (tho Xaignar and phoenix and all the patchers probably demonstrate this enough), the end of the war and thus the loss of your largest propaganda tool, and what will undoubtedly be the hardest for you: The prospect that I would actually become happy helping out aMule and that aMule is actually progressing with *me* on the team.
Of course now i've almost fully guaranteed you'd accept this invitation ,and by printing this sentence, given you an easy out :-)
Enjoy the freedom,
-hope
PS Due to how easily a unicameral democratic system can be overtaken (Germany went from Democracy to dictatorship in 33 days, the bicameral united states will take at least 5 years to do so), this shouldn't (like my past peace offerings) be put up for the mob to vote on. This needs to be an executive decision by the head of the team...if that position *truly* isn't formalized as i have been told through Kry propaganda, then base this on # of lines coded based upon the cvs annotate function.
PPS As I have discussed with Xaignar, I would like nothing more than for this to become so permanent that I can permanently give up developing xMule, despite how this would sadden the core users/testers there who have been there so long, but that's a sacrifice i think we have to take for the good fo the world.
there are bigger issues than my or kry's egos. i hope you can see that. this is why i seek peace...not for the ease of giving in, but for the sake of the future.
I'm still waiting for a peace from Kry...13 from me, 0 from him, he's always the one that blocks the peace too, generally referencing the same mob that took away bigbob's rightful seat and gave it to him.
If you want to know why there is no peace, ask him...ask yourself since you're part of the mob. 12 months since kry joined amule. 13th peace attempt. hmm...
Is it any wonder who started the war? if not, search xmule's forums...many of kry's flames were deleted (in retrospect this is a bad policy) due to their viciousness, but he still has a good 50 or so flames on there. Compare this to the # of my posts on here and realize that 2 of those were peace attempts.
goddman...sorry i'm so anti-kry again. this is why he has to go on vacation during the critical settling in period (1 week)! Until i can work out lines of communication that don't directly involve him, there's no chance of me being able to help out amule :-/ If I still can't cut it w/ him active after htat, then i'll admit my humanity and try to come up with yet another peace plan that is more suitable than this.
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one final thing.
this entire amule-xmule battle is NOT one of propriety vs 'opensource'.
madcat claims i never opened xmule '2', but a simple comparison of Madcat's "xmule v2" project's creation date (8-5-2003 http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/xmule2/) and the dates of the publication of my xmule 2.0's source via cvs (6-20-2003 http://xmule.versionhost.com/viewcvs.cgi/xmule-gui/IRCWindow.cpp) will show through that lie once and for all. I published it exactly as I coded it. They just didn't like how i DID NOT COMMIT BUGGY CODE LIKE THEY DID!!
anyway. i could debunk these lies over and over and over again, but i'm always too busy coding to interfere much with you guys (right now i can't sleep and it's 4:33 AM, so i have plenty of time).
It's time to WAKE UP and realize that you are being lied to. In a sane world, you would seek to know how you were lied to...would want to see the evidence, would want to hold the leaders who lied to you accountable...especially when you realize someone has been hurt deeply by these lies.
But this isn't a sane world. It's the whacked world of teh GPL. Where people shout FREEDOM FREEDOM when in reality they are referring to the doctrine that says "Your time when you are coding is worth absolutely 0...we make sure of that" "You are free to do any thing with a piece of code that is GPLd because NO ONE owns it ... not even its author...and they can do NOTHING to prevent its abuse." "You are not free to defend your work from people who would use it without giving you credit and then personally and viciously attacking you in public as their chief way of getting initial users." "You must hope that people play fair." "When they don't, you are fucked....Because under the GPL, it is easier to fork your code than even try to cooperate...easier to bash than to talk with...easier to turn others against than to offer support. Easier to hate than to love."
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aMule was forked a long time ago, I dont think that xmule code and amule code have a lot of code in commen anymore.
so for gods sake stfu saying amule stole your "good" code.... Kry, Xaignar, Phoenix and a lot of other people rewrote Network, Gui and everything to make aMule a lot better then xMule....
look at our Client and look at yours....this is like comparing a Ford with a Mercedes Benz.
i DID NOT COMMIT BUGGY CODE LIKE THEY DID!!
I saw your unicode commits, I could have done better and I dont hav a lot of clue from coding...so stfu again...blaiming Madcat and Kry
and some other post on your Homepage were the same, when you stated that you went back from CVS to some version 2 weeks ago. becuase you realiesed the 2 weeks work on CVS got worse then it used to be....
just go and leave us alone
Stefanero
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first off...nothing in any of the above posts was about you, so no need to get hostile.
secondly, let's try to work together for once instead for the benefit of amule.
third, the statement of mine you took out of context was stated in the frame of mind that is intimately familiar with the events and code that was produced around the time of xMule 2.0. If you believe that Kry and Madcat issued forth beautiful, bug-free code back then...then by *all* means use xMule 1.5.1 - 1.5.5 and then have a talk with the non-biased malware about how well they broke xmule while i was on vacation, while they simultaneously and jointly plotted behind my back to take over xmule.
fourth, let's try to mix all of our discussions with positive messages as well... so that we can each grasp on to rungs of hope instead of get hit by thorns of hate.
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Look at DynPrefs of xmule...It's EXACTLY what I want the future of xMule to be:
a) Incapable of being used by viral freedom-restricting licenses such as the GPL (which is really the only one)
b) 100% open source
c) 100% free to use in *any* way so long as permission is gained before modification, so as to guarantee working together
d) ability to use in commercial settings, for this is the *ONLY* way Peer-2-Peer will *ever* become MAINSTREAM in a legal way.
Ok, u dont like the GPL, and we love it. aMule is developped by people who love GPL. So the answer is clear: WE DONT NEED U :)
The difference between us and u is very simple: we think we can be easyly replaced by other contributers. aMule has its own life, and dont depend on Kry, Xaignar, or every body. Thats the power of GPL: source code lives by itself. Anybody can use it, fork it, but cannot kill it.
Thats why WE DON'T NEED U, because we dont need a special name on a changelog, even Pamella Anderson. But u can post patches, and if there are ok, they will be incorporated, and u will have ur name in changelog.
There is no possible negociation on:"i will join IF blabla". U want to join, post patches, u dont want, or want under conditions, we dont need u, have ur own life.
Thepolish
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fine...out of common human decency, I *beg* you to let me work with you and not against you!!
I hate this fucking war! I DID NOT START THIS FUCKING WAR! I WANT THIS FUCKING WAR TO END!! I DONT WANT TO GIVE UP! I DONT WANT ALL MY WORK TO BE WASTED! I JUST WANT TO HELP OUT AMULE AND BE IN PEACE!!
THIS ISNT A MATTER OF WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU OR FOR ME THIS IS A MATTER OF WHAT IS BEST FOR EVERY ONE!!
WE GAIN *NOTHING* BEING APART BUT toGETHER WE CAN GAIN SO MUCH!!
Just the negative responses received thus far by people i have *NEVER* dealt badly with ... whom i've always approached with respect....it makes me feel that amule is a team of hate. Thank GOD For glorious human beings like xaignar! He is a shining ray amid a bunch of haters!!
I guess i was just hoping there was more than one in such a crowd...i still haven't given up on this! A LOT of dirt has been said about me. FEW of you KNOW me. None of the two posts KNOW me...
Let's let love be our guide and just give each other the benefit of the doubt and try to do what is agapic! Love each other as we would love ourselves. Do what is best for the other!
Look...I *want* to help you guys! I *want* to atone for all the bad shit *i've* personally done! I *want* to admit that I am a fallible human. I *WANT* you guys to become my friends!!
Please!! Out of just pure compassionate humanism look past all this *TOTALLY* *SUPERFICIAL* AND *TRIVIAL* bullshit and just open up one kind soul to another!!
PLEASE~!
If you can't, then *PLEASE FOR THE SAKE OF US ALL* do not reply to this thread with your hatespeak. Let's be more mature and loving than that.
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Hey
I was not trying to be more hostily then you were in my post...just trying to defend my friends Kry and Madcat...
thing is I really would not have a problem with you being part of our development team, its just taht many people think that after all this hate and war there needs to be a transition period where
1st you "prove" that you can be nice for longer then just a couple minutes
2nd Kry and you should seriously need to talk to each other...since he does not like you and you oviously dont like him, which we can see 4-5 posts before
3rd show us that you can be a good help for us, aMule atm does not need you. but if you work good you will be respected like any other. by your work! not by the things you say just like Xaignar Kry and any other is on the team.
stefanero
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and i'm saying that i''m too much of a human to be able to do that.
i'm saying that i've tried the bug report route...they *all* turn in to flames and kry and delta and others inevitably personally insulting me saying that i need to see a doctor and that i'm stupid and to leave them alone.
I *want* to do the patch route but every fucking time i ask what can be done i am told "we don't need you".
I figured i could just socialize with you guys...the guys i've never possibly hurt (have i *ever* hurt kry even? no) and who have never hurt me....and learn from just talking to you what needs to be done.
also, since i am obviously going out of my way to make peace, it is the least you can do. and...i'm not asking for CVS WRITE Access any more...i made this clear above when i said I do not need cvs write access
. Undoubtedly all my work for ever will remain patches.
I can't repeat CANNOT submit inhuman patches for this is so much more than just code, this is interacting with human beings...making friends, helping out, teaching, learning, the whole shebang!
To submit patches, thus, is like mindless sex, mindless butt-fucking, and that goes against the entire core of my being...i'm sorry.
If you're not willing to reach out with your pinkies and link with my thoroughly outstretched hands as i jump into the void without a single hint of acceptance from you beforehand...and a lot of previous hate...then, well...I will not prostitute myself for your benefit in the least.
This is about mending fences by learning how to help and then helping. I just don't see how we can mend fences via a leach relationship where I detachedly submit patches for problems i don't even know about that are quite possibly being fixed already by somebody else (REMEMBER ! I DO NOT HAVE *READ* ACCESS TO AMULE CVS EVEN!! ... that's freedom for you if i've ever seen it) and the last release is many months old.
i honestly don't know why it is so hard to accept such a genuine and earnest offer/beg...just don't let hate rule your lives like it obviously must be or something.
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just to get this out in the open...
any and ALL work that i give to this project i will uncondintionally pass the copyright over to xaignar...therefore you will NEVER have to worry about me EVER owning ANY THING unless the bulk of you guys vote for that 'right' in the future.
just another way to prove i mean business.
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o...and this is the very last peace attempt, even tho jesus wouldn't be satisfied unless i tried 7x7 times....hopefully 7x2 - 1 will suffice.
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A little more phylosophy:
1st: people are evaluated not with words, but with actions, so stop use forum, and post patch if it is what u want.
2. Remenber the sentence:"dont ask to ask", just post patches
3. i think all is in the intinsic of the word "contribute": it is not "sell", or "exchange", just "contribute": do what u can for a project u like, with no exigences in return. just do it because u wish it in your mind. if this work worth respect, u will be respected like any others, kry, xaignar, etc, just by this work, not because posts on forum.
4. If u dont want to do so, no problem, live independantly from amule. Take ur decision, thats yours, not ours.
Things are in your hands, not in ours. Actions will decide, not posts and words. We are not gods to "give u a chance" or what else. u post good patches, u will be in changelog, u just post in forum, ur name will remain on forum, not in changelog.
But in anyway, no discussion about it, u will be one of the multiple names, u will not be the man who save aMule, the aMule Duce, or what else. Only one man, who have nothing to earn with aMule, like any other contributor... Dont post patch to be someone.
I was a man before amule and i will be one after. i dont excpect celebrity, money, or what else, i just do it because i want to do it. If people like my work, thats fine, if they dont, nevermind, i ve done it the best i could, and i will continue to do the best i could. Im not the kind of man who kill innocent 3 onces birds with a bazooka, calling theirselves hunters, just to show they are "men". I had an existenz before any project i ve contributed too, i will have after. I dont need anything but a mirror to know what man i am.
Thepolish
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WTF ?!
This all thread is completly out of topic and out of someone (except hopeseekr-kry) interest. What's wrong with you ? Do you know each other in person or what ?
You don't like someone - don't talk to him. You (both) live in free countries - do what you please.
I propose to close this conversation once and for all. Personally I don't mind if Kry or Xaignar is good person - I don't have plans for close relationship :). We just work on same project and share some interests. And guess what - an argument "who is guilty on bla" is non of my (and 90% of participants) interest.
Being short - Hopeseekr: get a life; Kry - silently ignore b*shit :)
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I think the only smart thing that has been said here was:
WE GAIN *NOTHING* BEING APART BUT toGETHER WE CAN GAIN SO MUCH!!
Well, "nothing" isn't exactly correct. Both aMule and xMule are being developed, each with its own pace. But, it would be very very very good if everyone just worked (contribution) on one project. I'm looking at "eMule" and "eMule Plus", and I think to myself: if only all that development on eMule Plus (e.g. optimization, GUI's improvements) could have worked on eMule too, it would have been a much nicer client. Well, I kinda
So what now? We keep attacking each other personally (notice that I have never done that)? Oh, I think we can all agree that it is not the best thing to do.
Well, let me get to the point, HopeSeekr suggested he will stop working on xMule, and start contributing code (in patches form if I understood correctly) to aMule. Now, tell me something, what's wrong with that idea? You don't like him or his views about the world & licenses? Well, that doesn't affect the code he writes. You don't like a specific patch? Nobody said you have to accept it (it's only a patch; eMule rejects many patches for example).
I think it is time we all unite.
-Avi (former xMule developer, currently site/cvs helper)
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I'll refrain to reply to the insults, lies, etc, and stick to the project-management related issues. I just edited one of your senteces in the first post to remove the public fun and insults about my private life problems, or at least about the only one you know.
Scrol down for the ending if you want it sumarized. Read it all for full point-by-point explanation of the results.
Look at DynPrefs of xmule...It's EXACTLY what I want the future of xMule to be:
a) Incapable of being used by viral freedom-restricting licenses such as the GPL (which is really the only one)
b) 100% open source
c) 100% free to use in *any* way so long as permission is gained before modification, so as to guarantee working together
d) ability to use in commercial settings, for this is the *ONLY* way Peer-2-Peer will *ever* become MAINSTREAM in a legal way.
I hope you don't want to do this to aMule.
a) We like and love the GPL
b) that's ok.
c) We don't need to give permision to anyone to use our code. Free, as in freedom. We're CONTRIBUTING to the comunity, and we're happy with it. We don't want to force anyone to work with us, we're cool if they use our code. Makes us proud of ourselves.
d) Nothing named "commercial" will ever get near aMule feelings. We're completely legal, you know. This is p2p and file-sharing, and it's absolutely legal :)
Dedication and perseverence i have plenty of, and *NO*ONE* EXCEPT KRY AND MADCAT HAVE THOUGHT I AM A DIFFICULT PERSON TO WORK WITH! NO ONE!
Allow me to disagree, thanks. Take a look at how many developers were and are now on lmule/ xMule.
IF you were such a great saint, you would like nothing more than to take me up on my offer...the same one i've made public numerous times over the last year since aMule has existed...
You always spice it up with insults and lies about the people you suposedly want to join. A great start.
No, I'm not a saint. I'm a human being, tho I could be considered a saint for what I'm going to do: ignore all of your post's content except that related to the project management.
Peace Attempt #13
I think I missed about 9 then.
If you are man enough to accept...
Bad start. Really bad.
simply take a vacation from aMule for one week.
Even worse than the start. But anyway I asked Xaignar, efe and stefanero (all the team that were online) and the answer is: No. From all of us. I'm part of the project, we have goals and things to fulfit, and I won't dissapear for a week and stop coding, even less now that there are new developers around. Tanks, but no, thanks. You'll have to live with it if you want to join. Stoping the development in such a way is not the way to start peace or to request joining a team. RC6 was delayed enough because of the problems that made me lose development from 27/07 to 1/09.
Let me work with the development team for one week.
Ok, what do you want? You know their nicks and the irc chanel where they are. Go on work with them. Ask, and you'll be replied, and if anyone does refuse to cooperate, I'll try to change his mind, but developers are free here and they do what they feel like. I can't blame anyone for refusing to work with another dev.
It will take me roughly 3 days probably to get up-to-date on what aMule has accomplished, how it has significantly changed from xMule, and what its goals are.
You're very optimistic in this.
The next 4 days I can spend coding.
Allright.
I do not need CVS write access..
Neither you will have it, at least until you do the same than the other people: several patches to get CVS read, several patches more to get r/w. That's all. That's the project policy and we're cool with it.
ALL i want to do is see how aMule's team is structured so that I can learn from it
Structure:
Admins: Xaignar, Hetfield, DeltaHF, Kry (thos listed as admins on the portal)
Being an admin means you have admin access to forum and release system,
Being an admin means that you are a developer, but you have also a LOT more work: administrating the website, irc, the forum, the cvs, the berlios system, sourceforge, donations, and all the direct contact required for the project (packagers, distro bug reports, contacting eMule/mldonkey/shareazza/etc developers, etc, etc). Being an admiin also means that you have the non-pleasant work of managing administrative issues like getting new developers, or having to propose restrict access to a developer if it's harmful for the project (tho that is very uncommon to happen, it's our work even if we don't do it).
Developers: those listed as developers on the portal.
Translators: those listed as translators on the portal.
Testers: those listed as testers on the portal.
Friends: All of us.
People over other people: Noone. We're the same level, the only thing that souds like that is the 'admin' issue, and it's just a bunch more of work. We're democratic people that take democratic decisions.
and at the same time prove once and for all to all the people who have never worked with me (no one but you and madcat have on the entire amule team) that I am not a 'dictator' (in fact, i'm too much of a pushover) and am not some closed-sourced fool.
I have to slightly disagree there. Uber is part of the team, and worked with you. Tho pure_ascii is not being able to contribute this days (he has his reasons), he has worked with you too.
About the 'dictator' and 'close source fool', you're free to prove the opposite, tho I don't know how. You can't prove you're not a dictator because we're all at the same level and you couldn't be a dictator in any way: one guy tried, and he got to be out of the project. About the 'closed-source' fool, that's very easy to prove. Just don't say you want to close source aMule. If you want to close-source xMule, which you will never achieve if you keep thinking that you rewrote 80% of it (rewriting the same parts of code over and over again does not add up to the total count).
Basically I just want to prove that YOU, delta, and madcat are personally the reasons this war exists
You'll have a hard time on this. Why do you want to prove we're the reason this war exists? To turn other developers on your side (tho I don't think any aMule developer would belive such a thing - we lvke side-by-side with your insults and lies everyday). But as long as you stop any attacks, I'm cool with you trying to prove whatever you feel like proving, like the earth being square.
and then, once more diplomatic ties have been estabilished by this little exercise, we can forge ahead in joint cooperation because more than just one person on your team will realize they can have dialog with me without getting you involved.
I'm sorry but if you are on aMule team, you have to be involved with me an any other developer. We're all friends and that will not change, because that's the general mood and feeeling of the project. We're here for fun, and we are friends. If you want to start from 0 and try to be friends, it's ok, but to EVERYONE.
I can't be friend of people that hate my friends, if you know what I mean.
Basically at this point it isn't so much about working *with* you but working with *others* *despite* of you.
You keep writing sentences that only harm your posibilities of joining. Here we work together, and that's what will keep happening. If you keep that haate-speaking about me, that will not happen.
It will take *much* strength from both of us...both of us will have to overlook how we are benefiting the other, in order to accomplish the greater goods of harmonious co-development of a single product.
I'm cool with it. Go on contributing. But I'm not benefiting anyone, I'm benefiting the comunity. If you benefit the comunity too, I'm cool with it.
I must face that i am directly promoting your ego while simultaneously denying mine (which is already incredibly low).
I can't see where ar you promoting my ego saying bad things about me.
that I must take, albiet in as indirect as possible, your edicts to heart regarding the direction of amule. that i must necessarily correct your mistakes and be absolutely submissive to things that I would normally call stupid, all because i'm humble enough to admit i'm imperfect.
Bad, bad, bad. If you start thinknig about correcting other's mistakes, assuming that you'll be there for that, you're in a bad mood for joining. If you call things stupid, you're free, but that won't help you working with us. and there are not "'MY' edicts to heart regarding the direction of aMule", if you're refering to me. The direction of aMule is decided by the team.
You would have to face the very scary prospect of others seeing through your lies,
I keep failing to see the peace call on this sentences.
of possibly learning you haven't mastered C++ (tho Xaignar and phoenix and all the patchers probably demonstrate this enough),
I'm not a 'pro' C++ coder, but you must admit I improved since Ihave only being coding C++ for 14 months :) And btw, I would like to hear Xaignar's and patcher's opinion about my 'mastering of c++', because as sometimes they correct me, sometimes I correct them. If you're trying to show the feeling that I'm a shitty coder and people has to keep correcting my mistakes because I'm dumb, sorry man, but you're horribly wrong.
A brief look at changelog can free your mind from those feelings.
the end of the war and thus the loss of your largest propaganda tool
I suggest you stoping talking bullshit about aMule everywhere, and then try to call 'propaganda' the fact I only say 'LEAVE US ALONE' everyplace I see your lies :) But ok, be like you like. I'm cool with it too, if you want to belive that.
and what will undoubtedly be the hardest for you: The prospect that I would actually become happy helping out aMule and that aMule is actually progressing with *me* on the team.
Hard? why? I would be happy if you contribute patches to aMule and help improving it. Why should I be bothered by it. And if you're happy helping aMule, I'm cool with it.
Of course now i've almost fully guaranteed you'd accept this invitation ,and by printing this sentence, given you an easy out :-)
You can see I accept, but without conditions :) I'm not leaving this project for 1 week because you want to be around without me, neither the dev team wants me to (I would if they wanted to). If you want a poll to prove this point, just ask for it.
I'm still waiting for a peace from Kry...13 from me, 0 from him, he's always the one that blocks the peace too, generally referencing the same mob that took away bigbob's rightful seat and gave it to him.
Every "LEAVE US ALONE" is a call of peace, tho you seem not to understand the sentence. And I have no seat on aMule team. we're co-workers and at the same level. Sure, I might be seen as lead coder or admin, but that doesn't mean I'm special in any way.
BTW: You shoudl stop refering to BigBob, for he understood all that happened and it's cool with us again :)
If you want to know why there is no peace, ask him...ask yourself since you're part of the mob. 12 months since kry joined amule. 13th peace attempt. hmm...
Stop insulting the users, please :)
this is why he has to go on vacation during the critical settling in period (1 week)! Until i can work out lines of communication that don't directly involve him, there's no chance of me being able to help out amule :-/ If I still can't cut it w/ him active after htat, then i'll admit my humanity and try to come up with yet another peace plan that is more suitable than this.
I repeat: no Kry leaving because of your childish attitude. If you want to join channel and talk to devs, ask, make patches, I'm cool with it, I don't mind about you in any way, but don't try to force the leaving of one of the admins for one week just because you can't refrain from insulting him.
--------------------- NEXT POST ----------------
It's time to WAKE UP and realize that you are being lied to. In a sane world, you would seek to know how you were lied to...would want to see the evidence, would want to hold the leaders who lied to you accountable...especially when you realize someone has been hurt deeply by these lies.
Right. Ted's style. One post asking for peace, one post insulting, lying, flaming.
I will just ignore it and keep acepting your so-called peace. Come, join, patch, maybe you'll get to cvs access if you're good at that patches, and maybe you'll join the team if the team wants you to join.
"When they don't, you are fucked....Because under the GPL, it is easier to fork your code than even try to cooperate...easier to bash than to talk with...easier to turn others against than to offer support. Easier to hate than to love."
Easier to work with friends than to have to stand a guy that try to force his views in any way.
You have a GPL project., FACE IT. If you don't like it, build your own project from scratch and then do whatever you want with it. But, please, we like and love GPL, and so if you want to contribute to aMule you will have to accept its license and stop flaming about it.
--------------------------- INTERMISION -------------
(amen to stefanero and efe. And thanks to stefanero for waking me up ("Wake up, Neo!") for this administrativce issue.)
---------------------------- NEXT POST! -----------------
I thought of replying to the lies and flames again, but, well, let's keep this post civilised and just ignore it.
fourth, let's try to mix all of our discussions with positive messages as well... so that we can each grasp on to rungs of hope instead of get hit by thorns of hate.
I'm cool with it.
---------------------------- INTEMISION -----------------
efe quote:
There is no possible negociation on:"i will join IF blabla". U want to join, post patches, u dont want, or want under conditions, we dont need u, have ur own life.
Indeed. If you want to join this project, follow this project's rules.
---------------------------- NEXT POST! -----------------
fine...out of common human decency, I *beg* you to let me work with you and not against you!!
Ok, I agree.
THIS ISNT A MATTER OF WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU OR FOR ME THIS IS A MATTER OF WHAT IS BEST FOR EVERY ONE!!
Agree.
Just the negative responses received thus far by people i have *NEVER* dealt badly with ... whom i've always approached with respect....it makes me feel that amule is a team of hate.
Uh-Oh. Insulting again the team that you want to join?
If that people reply things that you don't like, and you see it as personal attacks, I'm sorry, but you'll have to learn to be above it. Face it, people can think different than you.
And those are aMule developers. You insulted them as well as the project lots of times. Don't talk about respect and start showing some.
Let's let love be our guide and just give each other the benefit of the doubt and try to do what is agapic! Love each other as we would love ourselves. Do what is best for the other!
I agree, again.
Look...I *want* to help you guys! I *want* to atone for all the bad shit *i've* personally done! I *want* to admit that I am a fallible human. I *WANT* you guys to become my friends!!
And I wish you good luck with it. But you'll ahve to change your attitude and stop insulting and flaming us. And keep in mind that you can't force people to like you or be your friend.
Please!! Out of just pure compassionate humanism look past all this *TOTALLY* *SUPERFICIAL* AND *TRIVIAL* bullshit and just open up one kind soul to another!!
OK! I SAID OK! CAN YOU READ THOSE TWO SINGLE CHARS? OK
I *want* to do the patch route but every fucking time i ask what can be done i am told "we don't need you".
You reported 2 patches to aMule team via sourceforge support request. Both were inacurate and breaking the app.
you reported 1 patch via #amule. It was innacurate, and breaking the app.
I request you to know how the *Mule code works before patching thisng you don't understand. I'm sorry to be rude, but that's what you got: 3 patches to aMule team, 3 things that will break the app. Dunno if you did it on purpose for breaking aMule (hope not!) but that's the truth.
I hope your next patches are better, thanks. You MUST and HAVE TO post them on the 'Develoment' forum. LIKE EVERYONE. After a few good and useful patches, you'll join if the team agrees.
I figured i could just socialize with you guys...the guys i've never possibly hurt (have i *ever* hurt kry even? no)
Yes. Stop flaming me, insulting me, and taking our issues of my private life to the public (good thing you removed it from xmule website, bad thing that you reposted it here and I ahd to edit).
I can't repeat CANNOT submit inhuman patches for this is so much more than just code, this is interacting with human beings...making friends, helping out, teaching, learning, the whole shebang!
You're free. join the #amule and interact, WITHOUT flaming, WITHOUT lying, WITHOUT insults.
I've made lots of friends on this project, not only developers but also users and supporters, packagers, translators... virtually everyone in the community.
To submit patches, thus, is like mindless sex, mindless butt-fucking, and that goes against the entire core of my being...i'm sorry.
Well, you'll have to submit patches. That is the ONLY way to join the team.
This is about mending fences by learning how to help and then helping. I just don't see how we can mend fences via a leach relationship where I detachedly submit patches for problems i don't even know about that are quite possibly being fixed already by somebody else (REMEMBER ! I DO NOT HAVE *READ* ACCESS TO AMULE CVS EVEN!! ... that's freedom for you if i've ever seen it) and the last release is many months old.
a) RC6 is out today. We release when we think the cvs is worth releasing.
b) CVS is not public for access via cvs app, but you know and PERFECTLY KNOW because you flamed on the download page, that there are daily CVS tarballs where you can see the progress of the app. So please don't try to join by lying.
c) Look at the developers list. ALL, and I mean, ALL, have joined the team by sumitting patches. Look at it. We just added a developer lately (GonoszTopi) because of his great patches. So PLEASE if you want to join, follow the rules and don't start stating your own rules.
i honestly don't know why it is so hard to accept such a genuine and earnest offer/beg...just don't let hate rule your lives like it obviously must be or something.
Go on. Do patches, get access. It's easy.
any and ALL work that i give to this project i will uncondintionally pass the copyright over to xaignar...therefore you will NEVER have to worry about me EVER owning ANY THING unless the bulk of you guys vote for that 'right' in the future.
You can't. The one writing the code it the copyright holder, by law, like it or not. you'll be on AUTHORS file as anyone, and you'll have the copyright of that code pieces.
---- INTERMISION, FINAL CONCLUSIONS AND EDNDING --------
You're free, as anyone, to contribute to aMule by submitting patches, and if they're good enough, after some of them you will join the team, if the team agrees. As anyone. As Tyler Durden would say: You're not a beautiful or unique snow flake". Face it, you're asme level as any other. Submit patches, join the team. That's the one and only way.
Only by contributing you get to be a contributor.
P.S: I just saw there are 2 more posts now:
lfroen:
This all thread is completly out of topic and out of someone (except hopeseekr-kry) interest.
You're wrong. He wants to join aMule, and we're telling him how to do it. It's cool if ha can stop flames and wars and start being productive for this project instead of destructive.
And now for the wise guy.
Avi.
Well, let me get to the point, HopeSeekr suggested he will stop working on xMule, and start contributing code (in patches form if I understood correctly) to aMule. Now, tell me something, what's wrong with that idea?
Nothing, as you can say I billion times on this long, long post.
You don't like him or his views about the world & licenses? Well, that doesn't affect the code he writes.
True. I hate falso's haristyle, and he's still a good coder. I generally hate the freakness of Unleashed, and he's still a good coder (thos he doesn't stand much alcohol and starts pointless discussions on pubs).
You don't like a specific patch? Nobody said you have to accept it (it's only a patch; eMule rejects many patches for example).
Agree. As a matetr of fact, we also refuse patches. And HopeSeekr already posted 3 patches (tho not on usual places, he'll havce to use the Development forum from now on), and they were refused.
If he can do better now, I'm cool with it.
I think it is time we all unite.
Go on uniting. We've always been here.
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Originally posted by Kry
I hope your next patches are better, thanks. You MUST and HAVE TO post them on the 'Develoment' forum. LIKE EVERYONE. After a few good and useful patches, you'll join if the team agrees.
Added to wiki.
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I thought everyone knew that :P
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Originally posted by stefanero
I am would recommend you to wait also till 3rd oct and get wxGTK 2.5.3, this is the best choice since you have good speed and also a working webserver with 2.5.3
http://www.wxwidgets.org/roadmap.htm
2.5.3 scheduled: 17/10/2004 :(
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Originally posted by Beno
Originally posted by stefanero
I am would recommend you to wait also till 3rd oct and get wxGTK 2.5.3, this is the best choice since you have good speed and also a working webserver with 2.5.3
http://www.wxwidgets.org/roadmap.htm
2.5.3 scheduled: 17/10/2004 :(
Kry told me they put off the release cuz they had problems with Windows libs... Well, I'm sure we all can wait two more weeks. :)
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ok...
am i to think that after i went out of my way to be a nice human and end the hostility that kry is still being...what's the word? ... hostile? snide? arrogant?
or is it just me?
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3 patches to amule. bug reports. very few flames on forums (ONE not-positive post in a YEAR compared to all the HUNDREDS OF FLAMES BY AMULE USERS ON XMULE!!!) ALL THE PEACE ATTEMPTS!
I TRY I REALLY FUCKING TRY!! CANT YOU MEET ME A LITTLE DOWN THE ROAD?!?!?!
doesn't trying count for something?????! I've never had peace from the amule people. if it's not kry it's delta, if it's not delta it's teh other devs i don't even know with teh exception of xaignar, and if it's not them it's damn users!!
0 peace 0 peace 0 peace 0 peace 0 peace 0 peace 0 peace.
throw me a stick.
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well
I think Kry made it really clear in his post that if you prove yourself being a help for amule and providing patches...you will become a team member like everyone else before....
so take you chance or leave it, its now up to you we made our point
stefanero
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Originally posted by HopeSeekruber, what the fuck did i *ever* do to the bulk of you to deserve this shit? This forsaking? Have any of you *EVER* cried the way this hostile fork makes me cry whenever Kry gets up my ass in private? The way he and delta forced me to the brink of suicide by their downright insiduously hurtful comments back when I was at the lowest point of my life (Jan-Feb 04)?? No?? Maybe it's because i keep these things private.
Better question; what did I do to YOU? I am not a coder, so I don't get involved in any of this political nonsense between you guys. I just design graphics and hang around doing whatever I do; when most of the original development team moved away from xMule, so did I... Nothing personal; if you wanted to talk to me, I would have no problems with that.
-uberpenguin
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Originally posted by HopeSeekr
am i to think that after i went out of my way to be a nice human and end the hostility that kry is still being...what's the word? ... hostile? snide? arrogant?
or is it just me?
Hi big guys,
I'm nothing but aMule user and part of absolutely non-[something]Mule-related projects, where i'm learning every week how complex it is to manage a project. Especialy a non-profit one !
Despite this, since i read all the posts on this topic, i wanna say 2 -3 things :
- human relationship is the best as well as the weakest part in a collaborative (english ?) effort !
- Human need to rest (have fun / sport / ++ lol ) otherwise all of us tend to become like bugs :]
- So for any project to work on the mid-to-long term, we'd better have a pragmatical-capable decisional ability, as long as it keeps close to human-related wishes (both team members and users), and keep some free-time. That's a point.
- From what i've read here this year, aMule team is a strong team. Maybe not the best (or Paradize :)) ), but willing and able to go ahead, cause having chosen best compromises they could !
Thanks to all of you :baby: