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[Xaignar]

To make an analogy, the current situation seems to me like keeping two web pages visible at the same time. But Firefox's tabbed browsing was a success exactly because people don't need to view two pages at a time.

I think you'll have a hard time trying to prove that the lack of spittable windows in Firefox was a factor in its success, but I'd like to see you make the attempt.

The fact that I _can_ split windows is one of the reasons that I prefer Konqueror to Firefox.

If we want to discuss seriously, we should give a scenario where it is actually needed to frequently switch from downloads to uploads. Personally I never had one, because the two panels do not interact, and are loosely related.

Personal use-cases are just anecdotal evidence, so if we want to discuss seriously, we should gather information on common usage (3 users does not a common case make), as it is the common case that is interesting, not a hypothetical scenario.

[wuischke]

@seguso Firefox success was because switching tabs is handier and faster than switching windows. This is why I use tabbed browsing.
As I wrote I always check my uploads as well as my downloads when I take a look at aMule. The way it is now it just cost me the time to take a look at amule. The way you suggest it I would be forced to click to switch the tabs everytime I look at aMule. For me this would be crappy to use.
Suggestion: Modify the existing Gui and release it. Everybody could test what he likes more and you have what you want.

[seguso]

Originally posted by Xaignar

To make an analogy, the current situation seems to me like keeping two web pages visible at the same time. But Firefox's tabbed browsing was a success exactly because people don't need to view two pages at a time.

I think you'll have a hard time trying to prove that the lack of spittable windows in Firefox was a factor in its success, but I'd like to see you make the attempt.

Wait: not the lack of splittable windows, but the availability of tabs (which were not invented by firefox BTW) did play a role. The reason was that tabs remove clutter from the taskbar without introducing drawbacks. That's the point: no drawbacks. No drawbacks because you don't need to see two web pages at a time; you don't need it because the web pages do not interact with each other, they are unrelated; when you click something in one page, nothing changes in the other. You don't need to switch your attention _frequently_. BTW, the next Internet explorer will have tabs.

The fact that I _can_ split windows is one of the reasons that I prefer Konqueror to Firefox.

But that's wonderful: then maybe you explain why you need to see two web pages at a time. Then, from your explanation, maybe we can derive a similar one for aMule.

If we want to discuss seriously, we should give a scenario where it is actually needed to frequently switch from downloads to uploads. Personally I never had one, because the two panels do not interact, and are loosely related.

Your personal use-cases are just anecdotal evidence, so if we want to discuss seriously, we should gather information on common usage (3 users does not a common case make), not just try to guess what the common case is.

Ok, but someone should be able to give a logical explanation for a need, before we even bother to gather data about it.

[seguso]

As I wrote I always check my uploads as well as my downloads when I take a look at aMule. The way it is now it just cost me the time to take a look at amule.

Sorry wuischke. The question is WHY you do that.

@seguso Firefox success was because switching tabs is handier and faster than switching windows. This is why I use tabbed browsing.

Yes, but why was this possible, even though tabs prevent you from seeing two pages at a time? Because you don't need to see two pages at a time. That was the analogy.

[Xaignar]

Yes, but why was this possible, even though tabs prevent you from seeing two pages at a time? Because you don't need to see two pages at a time. That was the analogy.

Sorry, but you have in no way demonstrated that the lack of that feature has contributed to the success of Firefox, so your analogy falls flat on its face. Moreover, tabs do not prevent you from seeing two or more pages at a time, so you'll have to come up with something better.

[seguso]

Originally posted by Xaignar

Yes, but why was this possible, even though tabs prevent you from seeing two pages at a time? Because you don't need to see two pages at a time. That was the analogy.

Sorry, but you have in no way demonstrated that the lack of that feature has contributed to the success of Firefox, so your analogy falls flat on its face. Moreover, tabs do not prevent you from seeing two or more pages at a time, so you'll have to come up with something better.

You are reading the word "prevent" in a malicious way, so let me rephrase: tabs were successful even though they make it difficult to see two pages at a time, because people don't usually needed to.

Secondly, that of firefox was just an example; even if it were wrong (it isn't) it still would not imply anything about aMule. And about aMule, I still haven't read a justification for the need to keep uploads and downloads visible at the same time. Regards

[ken]

Who needs to justify the fact that they are interested in seeing certain information?  They just are.

Given that they are, if all the information they are interested in is typically presented at a glance without requiring a switch between different views, then this is more convenient for them.  If you change it so that they must switch to get the same information, then they will be inconvenienced.

[wuischke]

I spend a lot of time with supporting work in a german emule-community. You know this questions, which were already asked thousand times and where already a faq/howto exists. In this cases I need two webpages, one where I write my answer and one where to quote something or to find the link to the HowTo/Faq. This applies for nearly every supporting community, think about the wiki.
But if you demand the why, I wouldn't be able to convience you. This is like the windows-user, that see me having trouble (beeing in a place without internet ) to start a game on my PC. They see that things do not work (without a loki...) and don't understand my decision to use linux.

[Kry]

aMule is not a webpage.

[seguso]

Originally posted by Kry
aMule is not a webpage.

Jeez! Why is it so difficult to understand?  ;( That was just an example to say that it's not always necessary to show two pages at once? Especially if the two pages don't interact with each other and contain unrelated information.

However, it is clear that you people have no desire for me to continue the discussion. Keep up the good work.

[GonoszTopi]

Let you hear my words.

I have two problems with the screenshot you posted. (I have problems with current amule GUI too.)
[list=1]

• Did you notice that some of the toolbar buttons are actually command buttons? Saying otherwise, what would you put on the "Disconnect" tab?
  
• As your screenshot nicely showed, too much tabs. Actually this is going to be a problem with toolbar icons, too.
  [/list=1]

[lfroen]

GonoszTopi have very good points: wtf is "Disconnect" ? I suppose that on disconnected amule you will put "Connect" instead, so in-fact this is command button.
Arrows on the right - must not be there no matter what.

seguso: there's no such thing "amule logical structure". If I don't know what is it, I can assume that user will not know this either. GUI should reflect user expectation from the program. If user for some weird reason expect to see thing in particular place, and you don't put it there - you have disappointed user no matter the reason why you did that.

Amule GUI have right concept, with several parts need rework/redesign:
1. We like our main toolbar with icons known to users
2. 1 (one) level tabs is ok to divide things to known (to users) categories.
3. Menu is negotiable but imho have no use
4. Show up/downloads in same place is ok, most of people used to find it there

Still disagree ? Think we have no clue in design - go ahead, take remote gui from amule as an example and make it look as you please. That's the way open source works.

[ShakaZ]

@seguro
the problem with the extensive use of tabs, as both your screenshot show, is that each level consumes space. And space is exactly what we need when trying to view long lists as it's the case in the downloads/uploads tabs.  Maybe using 3 buttons or integrating the 3 tabs at the right of the upload tab would've been better :].

I'm quite happy with the aMule GUI interface as it is right now. Still i'd prefer the uploads to be hidden completely when needed. Also a better integration would be nice, for instance opening the client/file details box when double-clicking an item in the list.
Another way to improve the GUI would be to add some more buttons for direct access to common commands.

[spiorf]

shakaz, client/file details are opened by central mouse button click .
 you need the double click to open the client list for a file

[ShakaZ]

Thanks for the info , guess i'm still used to the single-click to develop sources & double-click to open up details  :rolleyes: