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Author Topic: Port GUI to Qt4  (Read 28764 times)

skolnick

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2007, 04:14:32 AM »

I agree with everything (moving some day to QT, etc) but I disagree with removing the chat thingie. It has served me in the past for files that have only one source, I snd a message to that source, he sets file to release, file is well spread. I think the messages filter works OK for spam :)

Regards.
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wuischke

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2007, 12:04:23 PM »

This is my personal opinion and does not reflect the opinion of the aMule developers.

First of all: Kry's argument that QT doesn't use native widgets is not true anymore. QT is really nice, too - but I wouldn't use it anyway.

I would love to have a minimalistic design¹ with a core/gui separation by default. (Similar to e.g. xmms2, i.e. you don't even notice that there's a separation unless you want to use the advantages of this system)

I could imagine using POCO statically linked for the core and I personally would use FLTK2 or maybe a future version of Ultimate++ for the GUI, but cli, web, wx, QT, Juce, Fox, smartwin++,... or even "real" native GUIs are of course possible as well. (And could be built relatively fast on top of a GUI skeleton not deeply integrated with any toolkit.)


¹ Although I have neither time nor sufficient network/application design knowledge to actually realize it.
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lfroen

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2007, 04:56:24 PM »

(1) why should amule have not feature, that emule has not?
Because I think chat in mule is stupid idea.

(2) Isn´t that here the thread for the QT gui of the next major Amule release?
Not so far.

(4) maybe messages could be replaced through an symmetric approved chat of friends?
That's called IM and there's dozens of better programs for that purpose.
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mulinex

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2007, 05:09:01 PM »

@ leo: it is not about chat, but about f2f secure filestransfer.
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lfroen

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2007, 05:12:58 PM »

First of all: Kry's argument that QT doesn't use native widgets is not true anymore. QT is really nice, too - but I wouldn't use it anyway.
You sound clueless. Every cross-platform toolkit ever created suffer from "not-really-native widgets" problem. I will ignore your "I wouldn't use it" due lack of technical argument.

I would love to have a minimalistic design¹ with a core/gui separation by default.
Same lack of technical argumentation. Minimalistic design of what? Of GUI? Of core? Of both ? What's "minimalistic" anyway?

I could imagine using POCO statically linked
Extremely wrong. Non-standard libraries are out of discussion. Static link is bad idea anyway.

I personally would use FLTK2 or maybe a future version of Ultimate++ for the GUI  ... or even "real" native GUIs are of course possible as well.
Yet another bad idea. Let me explain it one more time: GUI toolkit without decent RAD tool is useless crap. By "decent" I mean something close to Microsoft Visual. QT Designer come close. GTK have some good ideas. But "Ultimate whatever" ? Something 3 people done over weekend? Please, let's not waste time on pointless discussion.
"Native" widgets are definitely out of question, unless we take route to separate core and GUI completely.

Although I have neither time nor sufficient network/application design knowledge
Sorry, but if you have no knowledge on the subject, why enter discussion?
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lfroen

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2007, 05:14:25 PM »

@ leo: it is not about chat, but about f2f secure filestransfer.
I ask you once again: please stop trolling. "f2f whatever" is not going to enter amule in any form or kind. There's dedicated applications that do that.
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mulinex

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2007, 05:33:52 PM »

devide et imule.
This thread is about the QT gui. When do we start, and wuischke, will you help us though to short time?
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wuischke

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2007, 06:34:58 PM »

Quote
You sound clueless. Every cross-platform toolkit ever created suffer from "not-really-native widgets" problem.
You've surely followed the thread, haven't you? Kry mentioned various times that he critizes QT for not being native and prefers wx because it uses a native look (i.e. GTK2 on *nix, Cacoa/Carbon on Mac and MFC (or however it's called nowadays) on Windows.)

QT used to emulate the look of the platforms instead of using the native toolkit. Whilst it will still use its own look on *nix (QT is after all an established toolkit on *nix, besides GTK2), it uses a native look on Windows and Mac in recent versions.
Quote
I will ignore your "I wouldn't use it" due lack of technical argument.
There is no argument, only my personal opinion after using it for a little while. It just doesn't fit my personal preference. That's why I wrote in the first sentence that I only state my personal opinion, because I know that all of you think different. I wouldn't use C# or Java either - just because I don't like them, not because they are bad.
Quote
What's "minimalistic" anyway?
Hideously complex and hard to design.
To explain it very shortly: The application is divided into little parts, each one doing only one little job (here's the minimalistic) and giving/receiving tasks from/to others. Add the latest buzzwords like "pluggable" and "multithreaded" and you get a "minimalistic" design similar to a microkernel, which is complex to design, but once (well) designed very maintainable.
NOTE: This will never be done and I couldn't design it (yet). It is OT anyway, so you don't have to tell me how stupid the idea is. ;) (Note: A smiley indicates that I'm not entirely serious.)
Quote
Extremely wrong. Non-standard libraries are out of discussion. Static link is bad idea anyway.
Correction: In your opinion this is extremely wrong.
In my opinion this is a nice way of getting all necessary cross-platform operations of the gui (file access and network) with only a small overhead in terms of binary size and without having to load (and install) megabytes of libraries where you only use a small part of it. I like the design of POCO, so it's a personal preference thingy again.
Quote
Yet another bad idea.
Nope, personal preference. "i" and "personally" indicate this pretty clearly. ;) I'm well aware that aMule won't use it and I know your reasons to use C# as well - and I can comprehend them.
Quote
Sorry, but if you have no knowledge on the subject, why enter discussion?
I obviously love to hear myself talk. Although the only thing I actually hear is my keyboard. ;)
Seriously: I said "not sufficient", not "no knowledge". ;) I'm well aware of my limitations and I use the opportunity to learn.

mulinex:
Quote
This thread is about the QT gui. When do we start, and wuischke, will you help us though to short time?
I will try to help you, but be aware that I have little free time since university started and that I'm not "fluent" in QT and the design of aMule and EC.

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lfroen

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #53 on: October 20, 2007, 09:16:12 PM »

QT used to emulate the look of the platforms instead of using the native toolkit. Whilst it will still use its own look on *nix (QT is after all an established toolkit on *nix, besides GTK2), it uses a native look on Windows and Mac in recent versions.
Actually, it doesn't matter as long as it's consistent behavior.

Quote
Extremely wrong. Non-standard libraries are out of discussion. Static link is bad idea anyway.
Correction: In your opinion this is extremely wrong.
In my opinion this is a nice way of getting all necessary cross-platform operations of the gui (file access and network) with only a small overhead in terms of binary size and without having to load (and install) megabytes of libraries where you only use a small part of it. I like the design of POCO, so it's a personal preference thingy again.
Let's make some definitions here. When I say "it's better", it means "I checked the subject, have an opinion and actual technical argument to back it up", and not "it have nice name and website".
So, due to your lack of knowledge and experience, you can't make argument in terms of "personal preferences". Your personal preference is simply irrelevant as long as you can't back it up in technical terms. I, on a contrary do have knowledge and experience.

Quote
Yet another bad idea.
Nope, personal preference. "i" and "personally" indicate this pretty clearly. ;)
Seriously: I said "not sufficient", not "no knowledge".
Same argument here. You just can't grasp an idea that Fltk is simply not suitable for given purpose.

I'd like to summarize discussion so far:
* It would be nice to move to Qt
* This, however, is huge task, not just find-replace operation
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 09:32:28 PM by lfroen »
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wuischke

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #54 on: October 20, 2007, 09:56:13 PM »

You are of course right - I'm more of an dreamer in this regard, because I don't have to (not yet) make things actually work in reality and you know that you have to make the work in reality.
This doesn't hinder me from trying (provided I have the time) - and most probably failing miserably.

Quote
I'd like to summarize discussion so far:
* It would be nice to move to Qt
* This, however, is huge task, not just find-replace operation
I'm not opposed to such a switch (after 2.2.0 of course) and if Kry should change his opinion then I guess I'll follow your advice:

We would be happy about a QT-remote-GUI
That's good only as coding exercise.
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eisa01

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2007, 02:24:47 PM »

I don't know much about toolkits, but I definitely noticed when wxWidgets decided to disable sideway (x-axis) scrolling in 2.8.5. WTF is up with that? As aMule often has a lot of information to display, it was really nice to be able to scroll sideways, but I can't do that any longer. It's a very strange decision, as practically all Macs sold in the last two years actually support sideway scrolling out of the box. Either through the trackpad, or the mighty mouse.

Switching to a toolkit which doesn't restrict features would be a good idea.
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Kry

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2007, 09:56:43 PM »

Why is it again that we would be willing to drop support for a LOT of platforms, especially BSD, and reqork everything with a new framework, which so far I haven't seen an advantage about it, and has a lot of new problems for us?
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lfroen

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2007, 09:12:39 AM »

Why is it again that we would be willing to drop support for a LOT of platforms, especially BSD, and reqork everything with a new framework, which so far I haven't seen an advantage about it, and has a lot of new problems for us?
Why spread FUD? Qt does support BSD. http://trolltech.com/developer/notes/changes/changes-3.3.4/ Which means, that ALL major platforms are supported (Linux, Win, OSX, BSD).

Qt as gui toolkit is times better that WX. You actually have a chance to rework GUI in minimal effort. And GUI should be reworked in many places. Don't you see an advantage? I do.

Quote
and has a lot of new problems for us
At least you don't have to instruct users to rebuild/reinstall WX because of random crashes.
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Arichy

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2007, 06:29:32 PM »

wxgtk cannot handle special (unicode) characters, even with unicode compile. That's really bad.
and wxwidgets 2.8.5 was buggy too.

http://forum.amule.org/index.php?topic=13212
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Gentoo i686

Kry

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Re: Port GUI to Qt4
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2007, 06:50:16 PM »

wxGTK CAN handle unicode perfectly, so don't spread FUD either.
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