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Author Topic: An Editorial Reply  (Read 3812 times)

Irritable_Chihuahua

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An Editorial Reply
« on: July 18, 2007, 07:42:49 AM »

You can take this all with a grain of salt, but this is my gut reaction as a newbie to eDonkey, eMule, aMule, etc...

Having a software program that you have no upload control over scares the hell out of me. 

Having software that 'broadcasts' any and all shared AND incomplete files seems to be a neccessary evil to keep P2P traffic active, but there has to be SOME control left to the user.  Having to share even small partial files at speeds three, five, even ten times faster that I can download them just plain seems wrong!  Since I still don't have a completed download, I have no idea if this is a legitimate movie trailer or some highly illegal child porn I just broadcast over the net.

I don't think it would be too much to ask to be able to 'park' a partial download, so that incomplete chunk doesn't eat up bandwith every hour of every day with hundreds of file mongers uploading constantly.  It may slow down traffic volume, but isn't that a good thing?

Just about every ISP on the planet is set up with bandwith 2x faster for downloading than uploading.
When i first started up tonight by UL/DL ratio was a ridiculous 232 to 1.  Half an hour into it, it was still a steep 24 to 1.  Now, an hour and a half into the  session, it has finally dropped below 10 to 1.  That still means for 30 MB of downloading, 300 MB of my (mostly partial) files were uploaded to God knows where.  I don't think it is a stretch to limit UL/DL ratios to a reasonable number, like 3-1 or 4-1 either direction.   Just tonight I've had over 200 clients, 8 current uploaders, and 72 successful upload sessions, while I STILL cannot complete ONE SINGLE download.  I AM a partial file whore!

People are constantly being told to be patient, to wait and speeds will improve. 
This is one of the few places on the net I can find the files I'm looking for, so I wait.  And wait. And wait.
Phooey!  Look at how many times that message is repeated in these forums in one form or another.  Doesn't THAT tell you something?  Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I like to SHUT DOWN my computer at night, not leave it running un-attended for many days in a row.

Try this visual:
I want to but a cart of groceries at the store.  Everyone wants the items I am trying to check out, so they are constantly pestering the checkout girl to ask about prices, and even sample some of the food!  Meanwhile I wait.  I am hungry, so I am patient and wait for my food to be priced and bagged.  How the heck am I supposed to feel if it takes FIVE OR SIX DAYS to get checked out and leave the store? 

Now I had a lot of groceries, mind you, and some of them were hard to find and needed repeated price checks.  Some of the stuff wasn't on the shelf and I had to wait for the stocker to bring it out from back storage.  Even if I couldn't find everything on my list, if these other customers would've stopped pestering the damn checkout girl, I might have been able to get out of there in less than six hours, NOT SIX DAYS!!!


I am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings or stepped on someone's toes. At least the software works.  It does what it is designed to do, and doesn't eat away protected files or crash the system.  Bashing Macintosh software designers when I own a Mac is like cutting off my foot because I don't like the smell.  I'm glad someone is still developing OS X software - just make is faster, please?
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Vollstrecker

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2007, 12:07:32 PM »

You can set bandwith limits to limit your upload. A general limit, or not uploading partial files at all doesn't make sense, because many out there move the files out of their incoming folder once they are completet.
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kuvasz

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2007, 05:32:40 PM »

Volls said, "You can set bandwith limits to limit your upload."

My question is, "How much?"  My uploads are generally 4-5 times faster than downloads.  I've been using the default settings for aMule, but I would like to limit the bandwidth of uploads.

On the other hand, what would be a fair limit, generally?

- k

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skolnick

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2007, 05:44:03 PM »

If you do not upload partial files, how would you expect to ever finish downloading a DVD image? if only one persons has that file, would you wait online until he/she uploads the whole file to you? what if you cannot stay online 24/7? and then, as soon as you complete the file, you need hard drive space, so (let's assume) you burn it and delete the image. Wow. You helped a lot to other people. You downloaded 4GB from a single source, and gave back nothing. That's what leechers do. Now you understand why you upload incomplete files the most? and why you cannot avoid that? and why it's a good thing? but you were right in the beginning. You're just a newbie. When you learn more about how P2P/aMule works, you will see it's damn well designed.

Regards.
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Vollstrecker

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2007, 06:01:48 PM »

Iirc there is a fixed ration of 3:1 DL/UL if you limit to 1 you should be able to download at 3. The fairest is to not limit, but how much you give is your decision.
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Irritable_Chihuahua

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2007, 06:16:52 PM »

My whole arguement about Upload limitations is the fact that any 'typical' home (read: newbie) user should NOT have to STAY online for multiple hours/days to get a download rate that is remotely competitive with the upload rate. 

One way to do that is to limit which files can be uploaded, the other way to do that is to restrict bandwith. 

The fact that this software automatically binds download rates if you set your upload rate low, and the fact you cannot 'shut off' a partial (or for a better word, inactive) file from higher-speed sharing just seems ridiculous to me.

Files HAVE to be shared for P2P to work - I understand that.  This type of sharing network relies on EVERY user to be a sharing 'server' - I understand there is not an array of hard drives somewhere in Mozambique that holds it all.  I'm willing to let others download what I have, but not at a rate five times faster than what I can get.  This sharing setup smells of a pyramid scheme, plain and simple, and my brother already tried to get me to sell Amway a few years ago.

I just think it's stupid to have to turn on every faucet in the house, and let 100 people come in for a drink, just so I can get a sip myself.
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Kry

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2007, 06:55:50 PM »

But it means you can go and get sips from 100 other houses.
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Irritable_Chihuahua

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2007, 06:59:26 PM »

Tell me how easy it is to drink if you can only get a sip  of water from each house? And only three houses on the entire street have someone at home? 

- The rest are all at MY place swimming it it!
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 07:02:44 PM by Irritable_Chihuahua »
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kuvasz

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2007, 07:18:38 PM »

OK, I'm a rookie, here, so be patient with me, please.

I'm at the Preferences / Connection Page.

Bandwidth are in the top left quadrant.   Download and Upload show 0, and you can change the settings in k/b.

So are you saying that download should have 3 and upload should have 1?

- k
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Irritable_Chihuahua

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2007, 09:25:05 PM »

Kuvasz:

Your Upload/Download setting should roughly match your modem speed.

Example: 512 kB modem should be 512 kB download, 256 kB upload (usually half)

Other posts have recommened that you don't 'max' your settings at top speed, because any other web programs (browser) may bog down.  So go for 450 / 225 and leave a little bandwith to spare.  Other posts in this board have links to test your speed, and it's an easy search on Google to find one.

From what I understand (and the reason why my undies are in a bundle), if you try to cheat your upload number to something very low, your download speed will decline as well.  As it turns out, my partial uploads (and a lot of other operators') are going out sometimes more than 10x more than the downloads coming in, thus rubbing salt in the proverbial wound and testing my patience to its limit.
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Kry

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2007, 09:44:20 PM »

You're an irritable chihuahua indeed.
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Nerofumo

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2007, 11:25:28 PM »

In my opinion there is no way out: if we want to use some kind of queues every time we are owners of a queue (which means to allow the others to download something from us), we're providing a service, the same service we expect for ourselves  from other people.

The difference between upload and download is that our upload service should be always "active"; who's downloading right now form us has waited - maybe - for a long time due our poor upload speed.

If we don't want to tolerate a bad UL/DL ratio, i don't see any reason why somebody else should.
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Irritable_Chihuahua

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2007, 11:30:31 PM »

Well, as we all know, a Chihuahua's bark is far worse than its bite.  Yo quireo Taco Bell!
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skolnick

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2007, 03:32:17 AM »

OK, you made your point clear, you love downloading but don't give a damn about other people. Then use another networkm, where you can just get the files pretty fast, and unshare them as soon as you finish them. I suggest gnutella, I've been told it has lots of MP3 files, and other crap.

Regards.
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Irritable_Chihuahua

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Re: An Editorial Reply
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2007, 05:57:50 AM »

Geez Skol, take it easy - I do care.  I finally finished a large download late last night, and left it open for sharing overnight even though it took A WEEK for me to complete the download. I have been trying to give constructive replies on the board to newbies in similar situations.

- Match Upload speed to Download speed 50/50 and I don't have a complaint.  Don't set limits on either, and I can't complain.  Allow my download speed to run at max AT STARTUP (like the uploads do) and I'll be as giddy as a school boy. 

I have been using Gnutella for years, and aside from the fact they don't have a lot of files, I have no real complaint with them.

In my opinion, this 'points' system does absolutely nothing but discourage newbies from signing on.  I've been logged on for 35 minutes this evening, and my UL/DL ratio is 325 to 1.  One of my files has 72 'sharers', and I am still 'waiting'.  The one file that I am currently able to download says at the current rate it will take 18 DAYS to finish downloading - WTF!  And I even have a High ID!  Chunks should download in the order of ping requests, plain and simple.

I'm tired of ranting - I am playing the game by the current rules, and I'm not going to cheat...
BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN I HAVE TO LIKE IT! 

Signing off for now...

*woof*
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