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[lfroen]

please send it to me too. or post it here

[wuischke]

Here you go. Once I were finished with my Italian verbs (Did I ever mention how I don't like C?) and the extension of the skin code, I wanted to do some tests based upon this mockup with our current wx based GUI. (I got a wxDesigner license after all.)

I think that splitting the upper part in a section each for ed2k and kad is a really great idea. I'm not sure about the buttons to bootstrap / add a nodes.dat file, I think I would try to solve this differently.

Making the server list hidable is a nice thing, too.  Compare it to our current search dialog, but in contrast to the search dialog it is pretty obvious that and how you can expand the information. On a side note: a global search bar is a really cool feature.

The biggest problem for me is the log view. (There was some discussion some time ago about separating log and debug log as well, iirc). sneeka's mockup isn't designed to fit into our tabs, but is a bit like a "pull down window", if I understood this Mac OS X component correctly and thus it doesn't consider the log view.

Here a first sketch. I started with the network view, as that is what irks me most in the current GUI.
I'm still torn about the rest of the app. On one hand it makes sense to continue the "tabbed" View model, but I'd rather go for a different approach. In that case it'd make sense to implement the network view as a sheet on OS X, but I'm not sure how well that translates to other OSs (not sure how much Mac experience you have, look under "Window modal" here for a sheet example: http://www.answers.com/topic/dialog-box ).

In this first sketch you can already see several points I'm focusing on: No more tabs whenever possible, still a lot of information, but only always what's needed and always in the right place, a way to
simplify views (hiding of the server list) but easy switching to advanced views. Again, some of these are Mac specific strengths (the 'disclosure triangle' above the server list grows and shrinks the window) which I'm not too sure how to realize on other OSs, but that's gonna be later.

[Kry]

A 200x166 screenshot shows nothing at all.

About splitting in ed2k and Kad, I refer you to my previous post, wher eI pointed out that that forces wasted space for people using only one network. I have no idea what you mean for "a global search bar".

[wuischke]

A 200x166 screenshot shows nothing at all.

My bad, I saved the thumbnail instead of the real image.

Compare the global searchbar to what every browser nowadays has - a quick search. You type something in this field and you get a new tab with the search results. Only that we switch to the search window and show the search results after starting a search.
But I don't think this will fit our current GUI very well.

[Kry]

Don't think so either. My previous criticism stands: the ed2k server list, as much as you may want to hide it (why would anyone do that? to make the GUI smaller? What about the other sections of the app? would hiding the servers list make them smaller as well? We need a fixed main gui size to hold all components, so hiding things we have plenty of space for makes no sense - we have no dynamic PAGES, only dynamic component on pages to expand other components, and in this case no component would be expanded), is mixed with kad for NO reason, and kad or ed2k are shown when you only are interested in one network, which lots of people do.

I see no advantage over the current design. The current design could be improved on the networks section, but this is not the proper way to do it.

[sneeka2]

I see no advantage over the current design.

No advantage whatsoever?! What about the current design having 28 clickable elements in the network tab, whereas this first mockup has 9*, offering the exact same settings?

*) plus one button in the menu bar for the link handler (not yet in the mockup), I counted that too.

As for why you'd want to hide the server list: you usually don't need it. I find a majority of the servers in that list are next to impossible to connect to, so aMule is usually going through the list by itself anyway. If you are interested in the list, it's only one click away and stays open forever.

As to how to implement it: As said above, on OS X it would make a lot of sense to implement it as a window-modal sheet dialog. It's perfect for a network dashboard like this. Also as noted above, this is a very Mac-centric design for now. How to realise it cross-platform is a problem for another day.

PS: I already have ideas for improvement of this first mockup, nothing final yet.
I'm very interested in other's opinions about the ED2k/Kad separation. I see no reason to keep them the way they are. If you want to ignore Kad, you are still perfectly free to do so. It does not in any way interfere with your usage of ED2k. In the current design you'll still have to ignore the Kad tabs on the network interface, the Kad entries in the status bar, the Kad entry in the Search dialog and the Kad entry in the Preferences. I fail to see how including Kad next to ED2k in the network tab is any worse.

[lfroen]

Here a first sketch. I started with the network view, as that is what irks me most in the current GUI.

No problem, start wherever you want, but let me note, that "Network" is most rare used page. "Downloads" and "Search" are.

I have no idea what you mean for "a global search bar".

Agree. WTF search doing here?

You type something in this field and you get a new tab with the search results.

But WHY show it globally? What you gonna search in "Network" window?!

No advantage whatsoever?! What about the current design having 28 clickable elements in the network tab, whereas this first mockup has 9*, offering the exact same settings?

Sorry, but that is irrelevant. Number of "clickable elements" is meaningless per say.

I do see advantage on this design, but I see disadvantages too:
* Hiding server list is wrong. This is key element of this page.
* Add/Remove/Rename/whatever you want to do with this list belong to "ED2K" section, not to bottom of page.
* What's wrong with right click? Contextual menu is one of GUI guidelines in Windows and Gnome
 

[sneeka2]

You type something in this field and you get a new tab with the search results.

But WHY show it globally? What you gonna search in "Network" window?!

The point is that it's easy to search from anywhere in the app. It'll probably make more sense once the new design starts coming together more.

Sorry, but that is irrelevant. Number of "clickable elements" is meaningless per say.

True, meaningless per se. If the ratio of clickable elements to number of accessible functions is roughly 3:1 though, it's time to reduce 'clickable elements'.

* Hiding server list is wrong. This is key element of this page.

Sort of agree, but in terms of what (and that's subjective) I usually do in that view, the server list is pretty unnecessary. One connect button would do the trick for me.

* Add/Remove/Rename/whatever you want to do with this list belong to "ED2K" section, not to bottom of page.

It needs to be in a clear relation to the server list, which it is. At least in terms of Mac standards, there may be other assumptions being made on other platforms. I agree that the server list is not however in clear relation with the ED2k part above it. That's a point I was planning to address anyway.

* What's wrong with right click? Contextual menu is one of GUI guidelines in Windows and Gnome

Nothing's wrong with it, it can still be there. There's nothing wrong with having an obvious button at the bottom of the list plus a "shortcut" right click. Personally, I strongly dislike interfaces that bury some functions exclusively in a right click menu. And if you want to be as cross-platform compliant as possible: Mac GUIs usually avoid right-click-only functions.

The main improvement I'd highlight here is this: Something that was spread across no less than 5 tabs before is now all visible and accessible at once glance, and it's even less cluttered than before. And no part has been buried* or "dumbed down", they take the same amount of clicks as before, often even less.
*) hiding of the server list open to discussion

[lfroen]

Sort of agree, but in terms of what (and that's subjective) I usually do in that view, the server list is pretty unnecessary. One connect button would do the trick for me.

Are you suggesting that you going to get rid of global toolbar too? Because if not, you already have "connect" button there.

Personally, I strongly dislike ...

That's irrelevant. If you're choosing to ignore widely accepted practice (right click), please bring some arguments to your side.

Mac GUIs usually avoid right-click-only functions.

I saw plenty of opposite examples. And you know, in 21-st century Mac users should finally get used for mouse to have more that 1 button.

The main improvement I'd highlight here is this

I agree, there's improvement. I hope you will take points mentioned in this thread to your attention

[sneeka2]

Are you suggesting that you going to get rid of global toolbar too?

Not at all.

If you're choosing to ignore widely accepted practice (right click), please bring some arguments to your side.
I saw plenty of opposite examples. And you know, in 21-st century Mac users should finally get used for mouse to have more that 1 button.

Again, I DO NOT want to get rid of the right click.

I hope you will take points mentioned in this thread to your attention

Certainly.
I'm still interested in more pro or contra server list opinions for example.

[franz1789]

Can I ask a question? But by adjusting Mac GUI, will we have better GUI on GNU/Linux? Remember this software is multi-OS, not only Mac... Perhaps it could be better to divide people who are working into groups...

[wuischke]

Let me clarify this: sneeka2 is working on a GUI redesign concept with the focus on the Mac. This *might* lead to a new Mac remote GUI to give Mac users a native experience.

We on the other hand are interested in optimizing some elements of our current main GUI (i.e. what you call Linux GUI), so that we might use some of his ideas and apply them to the main GUI, where they fit.

[sneeka2]

Since I'm a Mac guy and my tools are all on the Mac, my mockups will very much be Mac-based.

Having said that, I am keeping the cross-platform nature of aMule in mind. For now I am focusing on creating the most optimized version of the GUI I can come up with, which will probably mean that I'll rely on some specific Mac strengths and GUI guidelines. From there we'll see if it's possible to translate this into an acceptable cross-platform concept, or whether the Mac will get it's own GUI and some selected improvements will trickle through to the Linux side.

As far as I understand there's sort of a separate Mac-movement going on already, so a separate Mac GUI might happen first (and is very necessary too, if you ask me, as the current cross-platform code looks a lot worse on the Mac than it does on Linux). I'm only speculating out of my rear end here though.

[eisa01]

Very nice UI sneeka!

Although I have one gripe about it, as it is presented it's a bit tedious having to click connect on both the ed2k and kad button to get connected, but introducing a connect all button would just clutter up the interface...

What about having one button for connecting, and you can choose in the preferences what networks you want to use, and hide the information that no longer is necessary?

[sneeka2]

Well, that multi-coloured placeholder in the menubar is supposed to hold a global connect button, just as it does now. As somebody said in this thread, sometimes you might want to emergency disconnect (not too sure why, but hey), so I don't want to throw the button out. It also allows you to handle the connection "task" without ever seeing the network tab.

About dis-/enabling networks in the preferences and hiding them if unused: not sure if the interface can be made that dynamically cross-platform. Also, I kind of dislike the idea of "hiding" an additional network in the prefs, as in "Woops, I never looked there and didn't know there was another network available".
Having said that, it's an interesting point and I'll keep it in mind!