I'll refrain to reply to the insults, lies, etc, and stick to the project-management related issues. I just edited one of your senteces in the first post to remove the public fun and insults about my private life problems, or at least about the only one you know.
Scrol down for the ending if you want it sumarized. Read it all for full point-by-point explanation of the results.
Look at DynPrefs of xmule...It's EXACTLY what I want the future of xMule to be:
a) Incapable of being used by viral freedom-restricting licenses such as the GPL (which is really the only one)
b) 100% open source
c) 100% free to use in *any* way so long as permission is gained before modification, so as to guarantee working together
d) ability to use in commercial settings, for this is the *ONLY* way Peer-2-Peer will *ever* become MAINSTREAM in a legal way.
I hope you don't want to do this to aMule.
a) We like and love the GPL
b) that's ok.
c) We don't need to give permision to anyone to use our code. Free, as in freedom. We're CONTRIBUTING to the comunity, and we're happy with it. We don't want to force anyone to work with us, we're cool if they use our code. Makes us proud of ourselves.
d) Nothing named "commercial" will ever get near aMule feelings. We're completely legal, you know. This is p2p and file-sharing, and it's absolutely legal
Dedication and perseverence i have plenty of, and *NO*ONE* EXCEPT KRY AND MADCAT HAVE THOUGHT I AM A DIFFICULT PERSON TO WORK WITH! NO ONE!
Allow me to disagree, thanks. Take a look at how many developers were and are now on lmule/ xMule.
IF you were such a great saint, you would like nothing more than to take me up on my offer...the same one i've made public numerous times over the last year since aMule has existed...
You always spice it up with insults and lies about the people you suposedly want to join. A great start.
No, I'm not a saint. I'm a human being, tho I could be considered a saint for what I'm going to do: ignore all of your post's content except that related to the project management.
Peace Attempt #13
I think I missed about 9 then.
If you are man enough to accept...
Bad start. Really bad.
simply take a vacation from aMule for one week.
Even worse than the start. But anyway I asked Xaignar, efe and stefanero (all the team that were online) and the answer is: No. From all of us. I'm part of the project, we have goals and things to fulfit, and I won't dissapear for a week and stop coding, even less now that there are new developers around. Tanks, but no, thanks. You'll have to live with it if you want to join. Stoping the development in such a way is not the way to start peace or to request joining a team. RC6 was delayed enough because of the problems that made me lose development from 27/07 to 1/09.
Let me work with the development team for one week.
Ok, what do you want? You know their nicks and the irc chanel where they are. Go on work with them. Ask, and you'll be replied, and if anyone does refuse to cooperate, I'll try to change his mind, but developers are free here and they do what they feel like. I can't blame anyone for refusing to work with another dev.
It will take me roughly 3 days probably to get up-to-date on what aMule has accomplished, how it has significantly changed from xMule, and what its goals are.
You're very optimistic in this.
The next 4 days I can spend coding.
Allright.
I do not need CVS write access..
Neither you will have it, at least until you do the same than the other people: several patches to get CVS read, several patches more to get r/w. That's all. That's the project policy and we're cool with it.
ALL i want to do is see how aMule's team is structured so that I can learn from it
Structure:
Admins: Xaignar, Hetfield, DeltaHF, Kry (thos listed as admins on the portal)
Being an admin means you have admin access to forum and release system,
Being an admin means that you are a developer, but you have also a LOT more work: administrating the website, irc, the forum, the cvs, the berlios system, sourceforge, donations, and all the direct contact required for the project (packagers, distro bug reports, contacting eMule/mldonkey/shareazza/etc developers, etc, etc). Being an admiin also means that you have the non-pleasant work of managing administrative issues like getting new developers, or having to propose restrict access to a developer if it's harmful for the project (tho that is very uncommon to happen, it's our work even if we don't do it).
Developers: those listed as developers on the portal.
Translators: those listed as translators on the portal.
Testers: those listed as testers on the portal.
Friends: All of us.
People over other people: Noone. We're the same level, the only thing that souds like that is the 'admin' issue, and it's just a bunch more of work. We're democratic people that take democratic decisions.
and at the same time prove once and for all to all the people who have never worked with me (no one but you and madcat have on the entire amule team) that I am not a 'dictator' (in fact, i'm too much of a pushover) and am not some closed-sourced fool.
I have to slightly disagree there. Uber is part of the team, and worked with you. Tho pure_ascii is not being able to contribute this days (he has his reasons), he has worked with you too.
About the 'dictator' and 'close source fool', you're free to prove the opposite, tho I don't know how. You can't prove you're not a dictator because we're all at the same level and you couldn't be a dictator in any way: one guy tried, and he got to be out of the project. About the 'closed-source' fool, that's very easy to prove. Just don't say you want to close source aMule. If you want to close-source xMule, which you will never achieve if you keep thinking that you rewrote 80% of it (rewriting the same parts of code over and over again does not add up to the total count).
Basically I just want to prove that YOU, delta, and madcat are personally the reasons this war exists
You'll have a hard time on this. Why do you want to prove we're the reason this war exists? To turn other developers on your side (tho I don't think any aMule developer would belive such a thing - we lvke side-by-side with your insults and lies everyday). But as long as you stop any attacks, I'm cool with you trying to prove whatever you feel like proving, like the earth being square.
and then, once more diplomatic ties have been estabilished by this little exercise, we can forge ahead in joint cooperation because more than just one person on your team will realize they can have dialog with me without getting you involved.
I'm sorry but if you are on aMule team, you have to be involved with me an any other developer. We're all friends and that will not change, because that's the general mood and feeeling of the project. We're here for fun, and we are friends. If you want to start from 0 and try to be friends, it's ok, but to EVERYONE.
I can't be friend of people that hate my friends, if you know what I mean.
Basically at this point it isn't so much about working *with* you but working with *others* *despite* of you.
You keep writing sentences that only harm your posibilities of joining. Here we work together, and that's what will keep happening. If you keep that haate-speaking about me, that will not happen.
It will take *much* strength from both of us...both of us will have to overlook how we are benefiting the other, in order to accomplish the greater goods of harmonious co-development of a single product.
I'm cool with it. Go on contributing. But I'm not benefiting anyone, I'm benefiting the comunity. If you benefit the comunity too, I'm cool with it.
I must face that i am directly promoting your ego while simultaneously denying mine (which is already incredibly low).
I can't see where ar you promoting my ego saying bad things about me.
that I must take, albiet in as indirect as possible, your edicts to heart regarding the direction of amule. that i must necessarily correct your mistakes and be absolutely submissive to things that I would normally call stupid, all because i'm humble enough to admit i'm imperfect.
Bad, bad, bad. If you start thinknig about correcting other's mistakes, assuming that you'll be there for that, you're in a bad mood for joining. If you call things stupid, you're free, but that won't help you working with us. and there are not "'MY' edicts to heart regarding the direction of aMule", if you're refering to me. The direction of aMule is decided by the team.
You would have to face the very scary prospect of others seeing through your lies,
I keep failing to see the peace call on this sentences.
of possibly learning you haven't mastered C++ (tho Xaignar and phoenix and all the patchers probably demonstrate this enough),
I'm not a 'pro' C++ coder, but you must admit I improved since Ihave only being coding C++ for 14 months
And btw, I would like to hear Xaignar's and patcher's opinion about my 'mastering of c++', because as sometimes they correct me, sometimes I correct them. If you're trying to show the feeling that I'm a shitty coder and people has to keep correcting my mistakes because I'm dumb, sorry man, but you're horribly wrong.
A brief look at changelog can free your mind from those feelings.
the end of the war and thus the loss of your largest propaganda tool
I suggest you stoping talking bullshit about aMule everywhere, and then try to call 'propaganda' the fact I only say 'LEAVE US ALONE' everyplace I see your lies
But ok, be like you like. I'm cool with it too, if you want to belive that.
and what will undoubtedly be the hardest for you: The prospect that I would actually become happy helping out aMule and that aMule is actually progressing with *me* on the team.
Hard? why? I would be happy if you contribute patches to aMule and help improving it. Why should I be bothered by it. And if you're happy helping aMule, I'm cool with it.
Of course now i've almost fully guaranteed you'd accept this invitation ,and by printing this sentence, given you an easy out :-)
You can see I accept, but without conditions
I'm not leaving this project for 1 week because you want to be around without me, neither the dev team wants me to (I would if they wanted to). If you want a poll to prove this point, just ask for it.
I'm still waiting for a peace from Kry...13 from me, 0 from him, he's always the one that blocks the peace too, generally referencing the same mob that took away bigbob's rightful seat and gave it to him.
Every "LEAVE US ALONE" is a call of peace, tho you seem not to understand the sentence. And I have no seat on aMule team. we're co-workers and at the same level. Sure, I might be seen as lead coder or admin, but that doesn't mean I'm special in any way.
BTW: You shoudl stop refering to BigBob, for he understood all that happened and it's cool with us again
If you want to know why there is no peace, ask him...ask yourself since you're part of the mob. 12 months since kry joined amule. 13th peace attempt. hmm...
Stop insulting the users, please
this is why he has to go on vacation during the critical settling in period (1 week)! Until i can work out lines of communication that don't directly involve him, there's no chance of me being able to help out amule :-/ If I still can't cut it w/ him active after htat, then i'll admit my humanity and try to come up with yet another peace plan that is more suitable than this.
I repeat: no Kry leaving because of your childish attitude. If you want to join channel and talk to devs, ask, make patches, I'm cool with it, I don't mind about you in any way, but don't try to force the leaving of one of the admins for one week just because you can't refrain from insulting him.
--------------------- NEXT POST ----------------
It's time to WAKE UP and realize that you are being lied to. In a sane world, you would seek to know how you were lied to...would want to see the evidence, would want to hold the leaders who lied to you accountable...especially when you realize someone has been hurt deeply by these lies.
Right. Ted's style. One post asking for peace, one post insulting, lying, flaming.
I will just ignore it and keep acepting your so-called peace. Come, join, patch, maybe you'll get to cvs access if you're good at that patches, and maybe you'll join the team if the team wants you to join.
"When they don't, you are fucked....Because under the GPL, it is easier to fork your code than even try to cooperate...easier to bash than to talk with...easier to turn others against than to offer support. Easier to hate than to love."
Easier to work with friends than to have to stand a guy that try to force his views in any way.
You have a GPL project., FACE IT. If you don't like it, build your own project from scratch and then do whatever you want with it. But, please, we like and love GPL, and so if you want to contribute to aMule you will have to accept its license and stop flaming about it.
--------------------------- INTERMISION -------------
(amen to stefanero and efe. And thanks to stefanero for waking me up ("Wake up, Neo!") for this administrativce issue.)
---------------------------- NEXT POST! -----------------
I thought of replying to the lies and flames again, but, well, let's keep this post civilised and just ignore it.
fourth, let's try to mix all of our discussions with positive messages as well... so that we can each grasp on to rungs of hope instead of get hit by thorns of hate.
I'm cool with it.
---------------------------- INTEMISION -----------------
efe quote:
There is no possible negociation on:"i will join IF blabla". U want to join, post patches, u dont want, or want under conditions, we dont need u, have ur own life.
Indeed. If you want to join this project, follow this project's rules.
---------------------------- NEXT POST! -----------------
fine...out of common human decency, I *beg* you to let me work with you and not against you!!
Ok, I agree.
THIS ISNT A MATTER OF WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU OR FOR ME THIS IS A MATTER OF WHAT IS BEST FOR EVERY ONE!!
Agree.
Just the negative responses received thus far by people i have *NEVER* dealt badly with ... whom i've always approached with respect....it makes me feel that amule is a team of hate.
Uh-Oh. Insulting again the team that you want to join?
If that people reply things that you don't like, and you see it as personal attacks, I'm sorry, but you'll have to learn to be above it. Face it, people can think different than you.
And those are aMule developers. You insulted them as well as the project lots of times. Don't talk about respect and start showing some.
Let's let love be our guide and just give each other the benefit of the doubt and try to do what is agapic! Love each other as we would love ourselves. Do what is best for the other!
I agree, again.
Look...I *want* to help you guys! I *want* to atone for all the bad shit *i've* personally done! I *want* to admit that I am a fallible human. I *WANT* you guys to become my friends!!
And I wish you good luck with it. But you'll ahve to change your attitude and stop insulting and flaming us. And keep in mind that you can't force people to like you or be your friend.
Please!! Out of just pure compassionate humanism look past all this *TOTALLY* *SUPERFICIAL* AND *TRIVIAL* bullshit and just open up one kind soul to another!!
OK! I SAID OK! CAN YOU READ THOSE TWO SINGLE CHARS? OK
I *want* to do the patch route but every fucking time i ask what can be done i am told "we don't need you".
You reported 2 patches to aMule team via sourceforge support request. Both were inacurate and breaking the app.
you reported 1 patch via #amule. It was innacurate, and breaking the app.
I request you to know how the *Mule code works before patching thisng you don't understand. I'm sorry to be rude, but that's what you got: 3 patches to aMule team, 3 things that will break the app. Dunno if you did it on purpose for breaking aMule (hope not!) but that's the truth.
I hope your next patches are better, thanks. You MUST and HAVE TO post them on the 'Develoment' forum. LIKE EVERYONE. After a few good and useful patches, you'll join if the team agrees.
I figured i could just socialize with you guys...the guys i've never possibly hurt (have i *ever* hurt kry even? no)
Yes. Stop flaming me, insulting me, and taking our issues of my private life to the public (good thing you removed it from xmule website, bad thing that you reposted it here and I ahd to edit).
I can't repeat CANNOT submit inhuman patches for this is so much more than just code, this is interacting with human beings...making friends, helping out, teaching, learning, the whole shebang!
You're free. join the #amule and interact, WITHOUT flaming, WITHOUT lying, WITHOUT insults.
I've made lots of friends on this project, not only developers but also users and supporters, packagers, translators... virtually everyone in the community.
To submit patches, thus, is like mindless sex, mindless butt-fucking, and that goes against the entire core of my being...i'm sorry.
Well, you'll have to submit patches. That is the ONLY way to join the team.
This is about mending fences by learning how to help and then helping. I just don't see how we can mend fences via a leach relationship where I detachedly submit patches for problems i don't even know about that are quite possibly being fixed already by somebody else (REMEMBER ! I DO NOT HAVE *READ* ACCESS TO AMULE CVS EVEN!! ... that's freedom for you if i've ever seen it) and the last release is many months old.
a) RC6 is out today. We release when we think the cvs is worth releasing.
b) CVS is not public for access via cvs app, but you know and PERFECTLY KNOW because you flamed on the download page, that there are daily CVS tarballs where you can see the progress of the app. So please don't try to join by lying.
c) Look at the developers list. ALL, and I mean, ALL, have joined the team by sumitting patches. Look at it. We just added a developer lately (GonoszTopi) because of his great patches. So PLEASE if you want to join, follow the rules and don't start stating your own rules.
i honestly don't know why it is so hard to accept such a genuine and earnest offer/beg...just don't let hate rule your lives like it obviously must be or something.
Go on. Do patches, get access. It's easy.
any and ALL work that i give to this project i will uncondintionally pass the copyright over to xaignar...therefore you will NEVER have to worry about me EVER owning ANY THING unless the bulk of you guys vote for that 'right' in the future.
You can't. The one writing the code it the copyright holder, by law, like it or not. you'll be on AUTHORS file as anyone, and you'll have the copyright of that code pieces.
---- INTERMISION, FINAL CONCLUSIONS AND EDNDING --------
You're free, as anyone, to contribute to aMule by submitting patches, and if they're good enough, after some of them you will join the team, if the team agrees. As anyone. As Tyler Durden would say: You're not a beautiful or unique snow flake". Face it, you're asme level as any other. Submit patches, join the team. That's the one and only way.
Only by contributing you get to be a contributor.
P.S: I just saw there are 2 more posts now:
lfroen:
This all thread is completly out of topic and out of someone (except hopeseekr-kry) interest.
You're wrong. He wants to join aMule, and we're telling him how to do it. It's cool if ha can stop flames and wars and start being productive for this project instead of destructive.
And now for the wise guy.
Avi.
Well, let me get to the point, HopeSeekr suggested he will stop working on xMule, and start contributing code (in patches form if I understood correctly) to aMule. Now, tell me something, what's wrong with that idea?
Nothing, as you can say I billion times on this long, long post.
You don't like him or his views about the world & licenses? Well, that doesn't affect the code he writes.
True. I hate falso's haristyle, and he's still a good coder. I generally hate the freakness of Unleashed, and he's still a good coder (thos he doesn't stand much alcohol and starts pointless discussions on pubs).
You don't like a specific patch? Nobody said you have to accept it (it's only a patch; eMule rejects many patches for example).
Agree. As a matetr of fact, we also refuse patches. And HopeSeekr already posted 3 patches (tho not on usual places, he'll havce to use the Development forum from now on), and they were refused.
If he can do better now, I'm cool with it.
I think it is time we all unite.
Go on uniting. We've always been here.
