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[seguso]

Hi there!

I've got a simple proposal which would make aMule more intuitive, consistent, and standard: the extensive use of tab bars. (Think of firefox's tabbed browsing.) Tab-bars are an idiom that is spreading fast, since they have a capability of making the program structure more understandable, without harming usability.

Here's what I propose.
[list=1]

• the main toolbar (connect, servers, searches, transfers...) could become a tabbar of level 1.
• the transfers tab, in turn, could have a second-level tabbar with "downloads" and "uploads".
• the uploads tab could have a third-level tabbar with "current uploads", "queue", and "clients".
• the "downloads" tab could have a third-level tabbar with categories (although I am still in favour of removing categories and adding quick-search boxes ;) ).
[/list=1]

How about it?

Cheers

Maurizio

http://fack.sf.net

[lfroen]

more intuitive, consistent, and standard

Those terms are very hard-to-argue. While one may find toolbar "intuitive" (windoze design) others found menu being "intuitive" (macos design).
Also note, that there's nothing to be consistent with - amule is just one program, not "program site".
Regarding standard: Micosoft have "Windows design guildlines". MacOS have theire own. amule run on both, and Linux (how could I forgot). So what look-n-feel should we adopt ?

Now to the proposition itself, from technical side.

extensive use of tab bars

This is considered one of biggest NO in any GUI design.
http://www.frankmahler.de/mshame/Tab.htm

[seguso]

Originally posted by lfroen

more intuitive, consistent, and standard

Also note, that there's nothing to be consistent with - amule is just one program

Nope. Consistent with itself. Currently aMule is using many different UI idioms to do the same thing:

[list=1]

• A toobar on top, to make a choice among 9 items;
• then, in the transfer section, to choose between 2 items, this time there are two panels (one of which can be collapsed, whereas the other one cannot).
• in the uploads section, to choose among 3 categories, there is a button that cycles the contents of the panel. (this is weird indeed!)
• then, in the downloads section, to choose among N categories, a tab-bar.
[/list=1]

This means there are at least FOUR different widget whereas only one would be enough (a hierarchy of tabbars).

Wouldn't this be more clean and understandable, regardlessly of the environment?

Regarding standard: Micosoft have "Windows design guildlines". MacOS have theire own. amule run on both, and Linux (how could I forgot). So what look-n-feel should we adopt ?

Now to the proposition itself, from technical side.

extensive use of tab bars

This is considered one of biggest NO in any GUI design.
http://www.frankmahler.de/mshame/Tab.htm

That is well known, but my proposal has nothing to do with that. You clearly haven't read accurately. I am proposing a hierarchy of tab-bars, each layer of which has only a few tabs (two or three). Furthermore, this would not change the logical structure aMule in the slightest. Only the aspect should be different.

Regards

[lfroen]

Nope. Consistent with itself.

Let's take a closer look to your browser where you reading this. You have menu in the top. Then you have toolbar (one or more), and then you have tabs. Or don't have if you looking on only one page. On the page itself can be more toolbars/buttons/tabs etc. Does it means that your browser and page you're looking at isn't consistent with itself ?
Of cause not. "Consistent" doesn't mean "use same thing everywhere". It means "use similar thing for similar purpose".

#  in the uploads section, to choose among 3 categories, there is a button that cycles the contents of the panel. (this is weird indeed!)

Agree. Definitly weird. I hope it will be removed.

FOUR different widget whereas only one would be enough (a hierarchy of tabbars)

You should count each level of hierarchy as widget for this purpose. User have no idea how many times you called "new wxWidget". And probably doesn't care.

Wouldn't this be more clean and understandable, regardlessly of the environment?

I don't know. And what is more interesting that you don't know either. Why don't you take Qt designer and make few screenshots to show us what kind of UI you're talking about ?

[seguso]

Originally posted by lfroen

Wouldn't this be more clean and understandable, regardlessly of the environment?

I don't know. And what is more interesting that you don't know either. Why don't you take Qt designer and make few screenshots to show us what kind of UI you're talking about ?

My, bad, I thought it was not necessary. Now I have attached a screenshot.

Note: I didn't add icons to the tabs, but of course it can be done. Also, the margins could be removed to save space. Only, I couldn't do that with qt designer. If you were using qt, you would remove them by using QTabBars instead of QTabWidgets. Firefox also does that. Unfortunately, I don't know wxWidgets.

FOUR different widget whereas only one would be enough (a hierarchy of tabbars)

You should count each level of hierarchy as widget for this purpose. User have no idea how many times you called "new wxWidget". And probably doesn't care.

Come on, I am starting to feel you are reading my words maliciously. I meant "only one KIND of widget (i.e. the tabbar) would be enough". How many tabbars are there is besides the point. The point is that you would be using only one kind of widget instead of four.

Nope. Consistent with itself.

Of cause not. "Consistent" doesn't mean "use same thing everywhere". It means "use similar thing for similar purpose".

Exactly. In my previous post, I argued that aMule is IMHO using different widgets for similar purposes.

[Kry]

I hate it (no offence meant)

[Xaignar]

I have to agree with one of lfroen's first points: Overuse of tabs is bad.
Which is not to say that I think reworking the GUI would be a bad idea, it definitely needs to be fixed.

[seguso]

Originally posted by Kry
I hate it (no offence meant)

Please, let me just ask one thing. Do you realize the nested frames and margins can be removed? (see the new picture). And that icons can be added to tabs? If so, I will not bother you anymore.

[thedude0001]

Still a tab in a tab in a tab (in a tab if you consider downloads with categories) is just a little too much IMO...

[wuischke]

I really like tabbed browsing, 'cause it's really handy.
But what you proposed is overuse of this nice thingy. Imho should the toolbar stay like it is, this element of the gui is nearly perfect.
The second tabrow is worse than todays GUI with having the possibility to see Downloads AND Uploads with one look. This way it just decreases usability.
The second tabwor is also not really needed, it's imho better to use a pull-down-element (the one you could create with the HTML-select) easier and faster to use.
You could think about replacing the toolbar with tabs, but I think it's easier to click at these large elements than to click at the small tabs.

[lionel77]

i don't think the current interface is that counter-intuitive. the only bigger problem i see is the mentioned cycle button (that switches between "current uploads", "queue", and "clients"), that should really be replaced by a tab-bar like the one used for the download categories and for the info categories (aMule Log, Kad log, etc.) in the servers list window.
also, i really like having the uploads always visually available in the transfers-window, so i would hate if i had to switch back and forth between downloads and uploads.

so if we replaced the cycle button with another tab-bar we would only use two different kinds of widgets (toolbar icons and tab-bars) for switching between content -- i don't think that's too bad.

[seguso]

Originally posted by wuischke
The second tabrow is worse than todays GUI with having the possibility to see Downloads AND Uploads with one look. This way it just decreases usability.

Could you please explain why you would want to have uploads and dowloads visible at the same time?

The second tabwor is also not really needed, it's imho better to use a pull-down-element (the one you could create with the HTML-select) easier and faster to use.

faster? But it's one click more.

You could think about replacing the toolbar with tabs, but I think it's easier to click at these large elements than to click at the small tabs.

the size of tabs is not fixed and depends on their picture.

[wuischke]

Could you please explain why you would want to have uploads and dowloads visible at the same time?

I simply want a complete overview over the current situation, wheter the upload works well and how the downloads are doing. I simply got used to it and cannott image to have to switch the tab before seeing the current situation.

faster? But it's one click more.

It's a shorter way with the mouse.

It's just my opinion and maybe will I write my own GUI one day to customize it to my needs. I like a clear overview about all facts without having to spend much time. Things that are not needed should not go on my nerves when I don't need them, but fastly available if I need them. F.e. I use players, which are minimized to trayicon and control them with shortcuts like Win+B for next track. Using a gui would cost me more time and more resources. But if want to modify the playlist this should be easy and fast as well.
Back to amule: Take the search-function: This is really bad to use, if you wanna use regxps. Emules one was not perfect, but far better.

[lionel77]

Originally posted by seguso
Could you please explain why you would want to have uploads and dowloads visible at the same time?

why would you want to separate them into different tabs when the uploads only require a little space and can be fit conveniently in the same window as the downloads? i personally really like to have an eye on my uploads while looking through the downloads. i would hate having to switch back and forth between them.
many people seem to share this view as evidenced by the fact that the majority of p2p apps are using this kind of layout.

[seguso]

Originally posted by lionel77

Originally posted by seguso
Could you please explain why you would want to have uploads and dowloads visible at the same time?

why would you want to separate them into different tabs when the uploads only require a little space and can be fit conveniently in the same window as the downloads?

Because tabs 1.  would expose the logical structure of aMule more clearly, 2. would allow aMule to be more consistent (only one idiom instead of four), and 3. because I don't yet see a drawback: I never had the need to frequently switch from downloads to uploads.

To make an analogy, the current situation seems to me like keeping two web pages visible at the same time. But Firefox's tabbed browsing was a success exactly because people don't need to view two pages at a time. Let's not forget that our conscious attention can only focus on one thing at a time. So the only reason why you would have both visible is to ease the attention-switch. But this only makes sense if you need to switch your attention frequently.

i personally really like to have an eye on my uploads while looking through the downloads. i would hate having to switch back and forth between them.
many people seem to share this view as evidenced by the fact that the majority of p2p apps are using this kind of layout.

Do you realize that "I really like to..." is not a sensible reply to the question? And neither is "I got used to it", which is the answer another poster gave.
If we want to discuss seriously, we should give a scenario where it is actually needed to frequently switch from downloads to uploads. Personally I never had one, because the two panels do not interact, and are loosely related.

Regards